Official Team PC Prize Brainstorm - We Tally Up Prizes for Second Contest HERE [Archive]

muckshifter

01-12-2002, 06:24 AM

As some of you are aware I was a member of PCReview and had just started a competition to attract new members ... well to cut a long story short ... I can donate the following.

1. Abit KT7A Raid Motherboard. (Still boxed never used but tested OK)
2. AMD 1gig AXIA CPU unlocked (tested to 1.3)
3. Thee stick of 128Mb/133 Infranone (spell?) Memory

These Items were earmarked for PCReview but it seems that site is destined never to see the light.

Now these items were "donated" to me to use as I feel fit and if I hang on to them for any longer they will be obsolete ... so what would you like to use them for?

1. Panty Chasers … to recruit more members?
2. BitbenderForums … to recruit more members?
3. Put them in Netties machine as it passed away yesterday?

Oh, and have a look as to who is the last member of Team PC.

Techvillage

01-12-2002, 09:00 AM

Hiu Mucks - great you and Nettie have joined Team PC :)

Put that lot into Netties PC, coz the whole point of the compettiton is to raise awareness of the project, get people joining the team, and sending in results - by putting all of those parts into Netties box, we are achiving what we are aiming for :)

Once again, great to see you on the team :)

muckshifter

01-12-2002, 09:12 AM

Thanks Tech ...

Nettie's old FIC2013/450 will be used as a Linux box and I will pop along to a computer show here in Cardiff on Sunday (tomorrow) and may just pick-up a DDR system for her.

Nettie could do with the "speed" of such a system as she does excert more "power apps" with her system than I do.

My offer still stands. :D

ImaginAsian

01-12-2002, 09:39 AM

Big :beer: and :cheers: to mucks joining the team!

I agree with Tech, it acheives the same result and Nettie will thank you for the speed boost! But if you decide to pick her up some DDR lovin, we would love to have those as prizes for our new contest. I am so excited team....so many people willing to donate prizes, should make this 2nd contest a great one!

Regarding prize donations...I will donate a

Logitech Cordless Optical Mouse

JD, I renamed the thread to make it an official brainstrom so all prizes can be sorted out here to make it easier.

Skamp

01-12-2002, 11:48 AM

I now have a spare WBK38 HSF I can offer as a prize.I know its not the most sought after HSF but it would be handy if you have a 2nd or third or fourth system you need some better cooling for.Lemme know what you think!

JackDaniels

01-12-2002, 12:39 PM

IA said... JD, I renamed the thread to make it an official brainstrom so all prizes can be sorted out here to make it easier.

I have no probs with that IA, it makes sense to make it easy.

JD

:D

Techvillage

01-12-2002, 01:53 PM

We need to decide on people who are outside UK/Eire and North America, coz that leaves Skamp and possbily new teammates effectively excluded from the prizes.

Because of that, and shipping from the UK, isn't too bad, and the PAL8045 isn't that heavy or particulalry big, I'm extending the shipping of my donation to Worldwide.

That being said - I know we have touched on this before, but anybody else have any solutions to the problem about worlwide shipping. One thing I thought was, say somebody in Australia won, to contact an Aussie supplier, pay by credit card over the phone/website with delivery to the the winner in Oz, that way on ly local shipping costs. But probably purchase price not gonna be so good.

muckshifter

01-12-2002, 02:20 PM

Hmmm, this could get complicated?

I, for one, will ship worldwide, but then I'm NOT putting a copper HS on the prize list. ;)

JackDaniels

01-12-2002, 02:40 PM

Where in Oz are you?

Skamp

01-12-2002, 09:19 PM

I live in Canberra JD!

As far as shipping in concerned,I just sent a Mobo,CPU,ram,2 cds and an intruction book to the US from Here in Aus,its weight after packing was 1.5 kilos,and only cost me $29 (aussie money,$14 or so US dollars)so I have no problem shipping my prize if its selected as a prize,to anywhere in the world!!

AmStoned

01-14-2002, 08:19 PM

Who wants to win a spanking new Philips Acoustic Edge 706 Retail!?:D As promised, here's my contribution for the second round prizes, though I have no freaking idea how I'm gonna ship this big ass piece of shit out...:grr::D

Skamp

01-14-2002, 08:31 PM

Send it to me,I will pay for shipping!!:D

AmStoned

01-14-2002, 09:59 PM

I'm just trying to convert y'all SoundBlaster and all other sound card users over to the light. Besides, we haven't made up the rules or requirements on entering the drawing for 2nd round prizes. Hell, maybe I'll bribe myself and put it my second system.:D

prod

01-15-2002, 01:22 AM

Might consider the winners paying COD or part thereof?

Id be glad to pay shipping on the Alpha ;)

AmStoned

01-15-2002, 01:53 AM

Was kidding about the shipping cost. I'll pay shipping as long as it's within the US.

JackDaniels

01-15-2002, 01:09 PM

Has anyone got the time to draft some rules for this comp that we can pick over. I'd really like to get started. :p

catcorpse

01-15-2002, 10:16 PM

rules:
1. one contest. no need for 2, have more prizes and also shipping isn't bad unless it's an anchor
2.stateside someone should get all the prizes and ship them IA style. I don't care who but they should get some $$ to pay for shipping. I find that someone instead of giving a prize pay some shipping and that would be one initself.
3. there should be one person in charge of all the prizes and what should be given once at a time
4. should be weekly prizes up to 3 if there is enough
5. prizes are in new or like new condition
6. last that I can think of for now is that the grand prize should go to me :D:rollin:

I have an Idea for the grand prize, but need to think alittle more

AmStoned

01-15-2002, 11:22 PM

Cats: I like the idea of centralizing the source of the prizes to ensure the winners get their prizes, however, it's a costly one nonetheless. That means we'll have pay double the shipping cost. I see very high costs if prizes are to be shipped across the pond and back... damn, be back with the rest of me ideas...

continue... Not saying I don't trust the shipper, but if one's found to not ship prize as promise... well, I'll just to to propose banning your ass.

catcorpse

01-15-2002, 11:27 PM

I think one for each side of the pond :) that should take care of that.

I will have a few more tommorow if I can think strait

JohnnyBra

01-15-2002, 11:28 PM

Yeah... double shipping is bad..

Good idea though, if it were free.

Guess the honor system will have to work? I'd like to contribute, but cant' think of a decent prize just yet.. Give me a lil more time to think about it and i'll see what I can come up with.. I'm a poor poor man :(

AmStoned

01-16-2002, 12:18 AM

I also have to consolation prize for those who gave much effort but didn't win the big ones: a jumble coffee mug... for panhandling purposes.:D j/k

ImaginAsian

01-16-2002, 12:34 AM

I'll draft the rules this week for you guys, incorporating ideas here and from the old contest. Also can someone go back in this thread and collate all the CONFIRMED prizes so far into one list so it's easy to see what we go so far?

Skamp

01-16-2002, 11:47 PM

Screw my WBK38 prize,Im offering a brand new Crstal Orb as a prize,so sign it up!!:rasta:

ImaginAsian

01-17-2002, 11:38 PM

Crystal Orb...sweet. Why not your Lian Li PC70 :)

Ok folks...i'm behind delivering the first draft of the rules but i'll have something up this weekend for us all to dissect. We have some time before we launch...two weeks.

Skamp

01-18-2002, 12:53 AM

Keep Dreaming:p

Furton

01-19-2002, 09:23 AM

I've noticed that we have load of prizes here, but would it not be better to spread these prizes out over different competitons? Seems like it's all being put in one basket (expensive one at that)

ImaginAsian

01-19-2002, 09:37 AM

We are spreading the prizes out over a length of time. Each stage will have a prize giveaway and the prizes become progressively "larger" as the contest duration increases. I think I understood your question correctly?

BTW everyone, I thought more about the US/UK prize drawing idea we had and I don't think it will work because if we segregate drawings for UK and US, that would mean we would have to know which team member is in the US and which is in Europe/Aus. Right now that may be easy but as we get new team members we might not be able to hunt down their origin.

Furton

01-19-2002, 10:50 AM

1. Yes, u understood my question and cleared it up for me.
&
2. Good point:D

Furton

01-19-2002, 11:02 AM

Not sure if this is any good but It just occured to me I could offer free website hosting for 6month - 12months for the competiton.

JackDaniels

01-19-2002, 02:37 PM

The idea behind the seperate draws was to ease the burden of postage. Clearly it makes no odds if the winner is outside the UK or US as higher postage will be incurred anyway. This issue still needs further discussion.

I still think it will work with draws on both sides of the pond, we just need to figure out the postaing arrangements for other countries around the world or tie into the T&Cs that if you are outside the UK or US that you may be liable for P&P (sorry Skamp).

The £70 CDR that I have agreed to purchase would cost around £5.00 to mail inside the UK or £15-20 to the US. Thats a no brainer. And no offence guys but I'm not mailing $$$.

JD

floppybootstomp

01-19-2002, 02:56 PM

Lemme see, off the top of my head, this Forum has members from USA; UK, inc. N. Ireland; Canada; Belgium; Norway and Australia.

And Texas ;)

Excuse I if I forgot anybody there.

JackDaniels

01-19-2002, 02:59 PM

A few poor saps gotta pay postage...

;)

floppybootstomp

01-19-2002, 03:07 PM

Postage. Yup, I suppose so JD.

I've kept away from this thing a bit, mostly cos I is seriously skint atm, but if the work load picks up I figure I may be a position to donate a prize. Call it the guilty conscience talking to me :)

Just a thought, but wouldn't it make a little sense to get prizes that don't weigh much? Like some RAM or a vid or sound card?

Or some favourite pRon DVD's? ;)

ImaginAsian

01-19-2002, 03:48 PM

I know the original idea was to leverage the postage costs. It was a great idea at that too. I was drafting the first rules this morning and had this included. But then it dawned on me about how to identify who's where. Not gonna be easy with new members who may or may not be posting here to tell us their location. So unless we come up with a way of ensuring the seperate draws include the right folks...Im not sure it could happen.

Seeing how the prizes this round are more "substantial" depending on how you look at it, I suggest let's just make it easy and say winner pays shipping costs. And if you don't want the prize you won for that week, then the prize goes back into the drawing and a new winner will be picked?

Mad dog

01-19-2002, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by floppybootstomp

Or some favourite pRon DVD's? ;)

I like that idea

AmStoned

01-19-2002, 05:53 PM

Are you telling me y'all want a 4 pack barely legal DVD instead of a sound card? Hell, it sure'll be easier for my to pack the pr0n.:D

Skamp

01-19-2002, 08:39 PM

How about this for a thought,if you arnt prepared to pay shipping worldwide,then dont donate a prize.Or if you want to donate,make sure that what you are donating is ratehr cheap to send.Simple as that.Im prepared to send my donation(Crystal Orb) to who ever wins it!!
And as far as me being excluded like JD said because of my location is very unfair(no offence JD)

muckshifter

01-19-2002, 10:04 PM

I'm with Skamp on this ... if you donate a prize then you pay shipping ...

:cryol:

AmStoned

01-19-2002, 11:10 PM

Ah, fuck this. I'll be broke before I'll ship my big ass piece of ship to your Aussie ass.:D Who ever living outside the US will get a TT RAM sink kit as a substitute, or a copy of Bring 'em Young 2 DVD. :stoner1:

Skamp

01-19-2002, 11:12 PM

Ill gladly take the TT ram kit!!:rotate:

AmStoned

01-19-2002, 11:49 PM

Update: There's noway I can ship the big box out, the cost alone equals half of the prize, so I've came up with some pretty good alternatives. Sorry to disappoint those who was looking forward to the Philips AE. The replacements will be

1x Round Floppy 10" Blue
2x Round ATA100 24" Blue
- The round cables will be given out as a set of three, floppy and ATA100.
1x TT Active RAM Sink

But this isn't final, let me know what y'all think.

Skamp

01-19-2002, 11:53 PM

Tops mate,that is a good prize.
But if I do win your prize,in this situation ill be glad to pay shipping for thr Philips card :thumbsup:

Techvillage

01-20-2002, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by Iron Chef
BTW everyone, I thought more about the US/UK prize drawing idea we had and I don't think it will work because if we segregate drawings for UK and US, that would mean we would have to know which team member is in the US and which is in Europe/Aus. Right now that may be easy but as we get new team members we might not be able to hunt down their origin.

As each member signs up , they are to give their country location, thus the competition admin can decide which competition they are in if it's not clear.

prod

01-20-2002, 04:58 AM

Did I mention I work for a shipping company and get a 75% discount ? ;)
Supposed to be for personal use tho, so 10+ shipments of computer stuff at the same time might attract some unwanted attention.

Techvillage

01-20-2002, 08:33 AM

Also - for the bronze prizes, the cost of shipping overseas will cost more or as much as the prize itself, so that's another plus point for having two comps....

What are the negative points about having seperate comps?

We really need to do a pos/neg discussion of two separate comps, and then aggree to it.

Prod - how serious an offer is that, and I should imagine that would only work from parcels sent from Canada?

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 10:30 AM

Hey Tek...

How do we make sure when the new members sign up they give their location to us? I think some newbies may join the team but not necessairly the forums so we would have no way of contacting them.

Here's another twist...if it turns out the number of people in one area is more then the other, the odds of winning for that area are increased.

Can someone collate all the prizes in this thread and post it in a reply?

floppybootstomp

01-20-2002, 10:47 AM

My thoughts, just mine, feel free to agree/disagree/flame/hurl abuse/comment etc.

I feel the prizes awarded should be for every member of Team PC, regardless of where they reside.

I reckon everybody who offers a prize should pay the postage as well and take the cost of postage to anywhere on the planet into consideration before they offer the prize.

If you have a prize that's going to cost more than you can afford to ship, still offer it, but state clearly that the winner pays shipping and where possible offer a cheaper alternative, as Stoner has done.

If you is strapped for cash, just buy a stick of SDR 128 or 256 RAM, only costs peanuts to ship and current UK Crucial price is at around £13.00 & £25.00 respectively.

There, nice & simple.

If a member can't afford to donate a prize & shipping inclusive, then perhaps don't offer a prize. It's no big deal, nobody gonna think any the worse of you and we all go through a few financial lows now and again.

As I remarked earlier, that's just how I feel about the situation.

As the Metallic Cook has requested, would somebody now please collate the prize list so far offered.

Put me down for a pair of Evercool 80mm fans, including shipping, btw, it ain't much, but I can definitely manage that. I may increase the prize value, we'll see how it goes.

<Gets off soapbox to shouts of mass derision and 'Tightwad'> :D

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 11:04 AM

Here's the first draft of the contest rules...time to dissect and agree on it!

0.5 Prizes will be organized into two categories: normal and grand prize drawings. The normal prizes are to be used in #1 below. THe grand prize drawings are to be used in #4 below.

1. Prize drawings will be held every two weeks. A total of 2 (or some number) drawings will be held to randomly select the winners from a pool of qualified contestants. Prizes will get proggressively "larger" as the duration of the contest increases. This is done to avoid having member simply join to win the big ones in the beginning.

2. To qualify, the member has to be active and return a minimum number of results.

3. The minimum number of results after two weeks shall be 40.

4. At the end of the contest, grand prize drawings will be held for the big prizes. The grand prize draws will also be held over a set amount of weeks. To qualify for the big prizes, the minimum number of results will be additive over the contest life. Thus if the first grand prize happens at 14 weeks, the minimum number of results will be 280. If the second grand prize happens at 16 weeks, the min result total is 320.

5. Shipping (our favorite friend) - Is the responsibility of the prize donor. If they can't afford the shipping, please let the contest organizer know so they can indicate winner pays shipping.

6. If you guys don't mind, 0-60 and myself can do the stats and pull the prizes like last time.

Once we agree on the rules and have sorted out the prizes, we will announce the contest at both BBF and TGW. We will give people two weeks to join up before the contest officially begins. We will also have several new banners for members to use in their sigs.

Techvillage

01-20-2002, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by floppybootstomp
<Gets off soapbox to shouts of mass derision and 'Tightwad'> :D

Not at all matey - I thought you bought up some excellent points and this is a discussion that's open to all.

To try and consolidate some of the idea so far ( I have cut and pasted some of Flopps because they echo thoughts already said by a number of members:-

1. One competition.

2. Everybody who offers a prize should pay the postage as well and take the cost of postage to anywhere on the planet into consideration before they offer the prize. If you have a prize that's going to cost more than you can afford to ship, still offer it, but state clearly that the winner pays shipping and where possible offer a cheaper alternative, as Stoner has done.

3. To ease burden of postage - One idea is the prize donators only purchase when winners have been announced. This way there is a possibility that prizes for prizewinners in the same country as the prize donator, can order the part and get it shipped directly to the winner.

4. The people that join Team PC have to give us a means of contact, or join BBF so that they know they have won a prize. If they don't - then they loose out....

Lastly - everybody is asking everybody else to collate a prize list - 5 people at last count....... ;)

floppybootstomp

01-20-2002, 11:19 AM

Agreed on the point about if Team PC members cannot be contacted, I suggest give it a fortnight (that's 2 weeks) then have a re-draw.

As for the collation, oh, OK, I'll give a shot you lazy bastards.... :D

Opens New Word document...

Mad dog

01-20-2002, 11:35 AM

I think these rules are just fine.

Do you think we should have a poll to see if everyone agrees on them?

floppybootstomp

01-20-2002, 11:46 AM

Here's the list so far. Any innacuracies or omissions please post in this thread - thanks! :D

Team PC Prizes as at 20-01-02:

1) A CDR (CDRW?) Shipping paid – Jack Daniels.

2) An Alpha 8045 cooler, Shipping paid. – Techvillage.

3) Abit KT7A Raid Motherboard. (Still boxed never used but tested OK) Shipping paid - Muckshifter

4) AMD 1gig AXIA CPU unlocked (tested to 1.3). Shipping paid – Muckshifter.

5) Three sticks of 128Mb/133 Infranone Memory Shipping paid – Muckshifter.

6) Logitech Cordless Optical Mouse – Imaginasian/Iron Chef/Face Off. Shipping Paid.

7) Philips Acoustic Edge 706 Retail Soundcard, winner pays shipping if not in USA – AmStoned .

Or:

1x Round Floppy 10" Blue
2x Round ATA100 24" Blue
- The round cables will be given out as a set of three, floppy and ATA100.
1x TT Active RAM Sink
Shipping paid.

I think Stoner’s offering a choice – soundcard if winner pays shipping outside of USA, cables/RAM sink kit shipping paid. Stoner – please confirm?

8. Crystal Orb, shipping paid – Skamp.

9) Hercules Muse XL 4.1 Soundcard. Shipping paid. - Floppybootstomp

Skamp

01-20-2002, 11:47 AM

When do you think this comp will start.40 units perfortnight I think is a little high,being summer down here,its too hot for my AMD machine to work 24/7 on UD without running my A/C all day.And Also for the peeps who only have 1 machie,it cuts them off the chance of winning as well.
But there is the fact that I actually dont know how many Units my 2 do each fortnight.......40 might be easy????

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 11:59 AM

I orignally had them at 20 results per two weeks which is like the old contest. Looking at the history of the contest, that number was very easy to reach and thought it might make it more of a challenge to double it.

Looking at your stats since you joined, you have 551 results over roughly 15 weeks. That about 36 results per week. You will be fine :)

Flops...thanks for the prize compilation! Wow...those are some awesome prizes we have. Didn't hit me until I see it right in front of my face! By the way...what happened to the DVD's :D

Last thing folks...if we find out a member has "double" entered by signing up under more then one name, you get disqualified from all future drawings and/or contests and have to put on Mr. Bojiggies' Panties.

Skamp

01-20-2002, 12:03 PM

Cool,thanks for that IA,and yes,it is one hell of a prize list!!
:eek:

Techvillage

01-20-2002, 12:16 PM

Flopps - I'm paying shipping worldwide.

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Techvillage

4. The people that join Team PC have to give us a means of contact, or join BBF so that they know they have won a prize. If they don't - then they loose out....

I like this one Tek, it goes into our rules :thumbsup:

Techvillage

01-20-2002, 12:24 PM

Well done IA for the rules, and Flops for collating :)

As MD said, surely it's time to vote on this and get the thing going, coz we need two to three days on the voting to make sure everybody has time to read and respond, and time is marching on.

floppybootstomp

01-20-2002, 12:26 PM

Sorted. (actually, somebody got there before me, IC probably!)

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 12:26 PM

Good Idea Dawg, Tek...let's give folks a chance to respond to the draft and then we can create a poll to finalize.

AmStoned

01-20-2002, 01:17 PM

Scratch the Philips Acoustic Edge, here's my new list, I'll pay for shipping even if you live in a whore house in the jungles of Laos.

1x TT RAM sink (Passive or Active)
1x Round Floppy 10" (Blue or Yellow)
2x Round ATA100 24" (Black or Silver Braided)

Note: Winner chooses which option they want, and I'll ship them out as a set. And that's final.

Mad dog

01-20-2002, 01:24 PM

I just want to raise a point that Skamp made about the ammount of results required to be entered into the comp.

Although 40 may be easy for us with monster XP/ Thinderbird systems, or with multiple systems, it doesn't seem fair to the average gamer. Remeber, we are looking to recruit new people to the team not just have all the existing members win stuff. There aren't many people who have 1Ghz + systems, or have multiple systems. I'll bet that most of the gamers who we are targetting only have one system and don't leave the things running 24/7.

If out target audience doesn't think they are going to win anything, why would they bother joining?

This is something we should think about before setting the minimum results for entry. Prehaps a poll on tgnetwk to see what people have. And i want to say it agian, not many people will be able to leave their systems on 24/7 so even if they have a 1.4Ghz system, they still may not be able to get the results they need in.

AmStoned

01-20-2002, 01:36 PM

1) A CDR (CDRW?) Shipping paid – Jack Daniels.

2) An Alpha 8045 cooler, Shipping paid. – Techvillage.

3) Abit KT7A Raid Motherboard. (Still boxed never used but tested OK) Shipping paid - Muckshifter

4) AMD 1gig AXIA CPU unlocked (tested to 1.3). Shipping paid – Muckshifter.

5) Three sticks of 128Mb/133 Infranone Memory Shipping paid – Muckshifter.

6) Logitech Cordless Optical Mouse – Imaginasian/Iron Chef/Face Off. Shipping Paid.

7) 1x TT RAM sink (Active); 1x Round Floppy 10" (Yellow); 2x Round ATA100 24" (Silver Braided) Note: Note: Stoner will ship them out as a set. Shipping Paid.

8. Crystal Orb, shipping paid – Skamp.

9) Hercules Muse XL 4.1 Soundcard. Shipping paid. - Floppybootstomp

And lower the damn quota. :stoner: Even my XP can't pump out that many units in one week. And you also have to put into the consideration that not all Team PC members leave their system(s) on 24/7.

Mad dog

01-20-2002, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by AmStoned

And lower the damn quota. :stoner: Even my XP can't pump out that many units in one week. And you also have to put into the consideration that not Team PC members leave their system(s) on 24/7.

Umm, is there an echo in here?

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 02:02 PM

Fair enough....results revert back to 20 every two weeks.

Mad dog

01-20-2002, 02:13 PM

You miss-understood me. What i think we should do is try and work out a number that will be atainable by the majority of gamers on the tgnetwk site which is why i suggested that we have a poll on that site. I don't see how we can just pull a random number out of the sky and use that.

Mad dog

01-20-2002, 02:30 PM

Just had an idea while talking with AS on IRC.

Instead of results per week, people should have to generate a certain number of points a week. That way people with low end systems can still partake in the compo, so long as they put the time in.

What do you think?

JackDaniels

01-20-2002, 03:10 PM

Hmmmm..

not happy with most. Will chew over.

Techvillage

01-20-2002, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Mad dog
IAlthough 40 may be easy for us with monster XP/ Thinderbird systems, or with multiple systems, it doesn't seem fair to the average gamer. Remeber, we are looking to recruit new people to the team not just have all the existing members win stuff. There aren't many people who have 1Ghz + systems, or have multiple systems. I'll bet that most of the gamers who we are targetting only have one system and don't leave the things running 24/7.

Interesting - my personal opinion is that the average gamer will easily have a 1 giger or more - who here on this forum, has anything less than a gig as their primary PC?

I think you will find the target audience will be the same?

I don't know - MD what are your current average results a week?

prod

01-20-2002, 03:18 PM

I have been on about a week now. I dont leave my system on 24/7, just a couple times overnight. Its a duron 1000 on adsl. So that pretty average setup I think.
http://www.interlog.com/~davev/stats.GIF

Techvillage

01-20-2002, 03:26 PM

Good one Prod - on average how many hours a day do you have your PC on?

prod

01-20-2002, 03:28 PM

AmStoned: What are the specs of the soundcard package? (dimensions, gross weight)
I will need to check, but I might be able to take it from you COD and then send it to a winner overseas. Its paying postage twice, but at 25% of the cost on each. Not sure if its feasible.
Depending on the cost, it could also be my donation :)
a
TV: the stats tell it like it is, about 10hrs average.

JackDaniels

01-20-2002, 03:45 PM

drifting off topic again...

floppybootstomp

01-20-2002, 04:46 PM

Off-Topic? To which particular post(s) are you referring?

The issue being discussed is how the next competition, in particular the donation of prizes, will be organised. I personally feel each post here is relevant to the competition as a whole.

You started the thread, if you feel that the subject matter is straying too far from the subject of prizes, would you prefer it if I moved the 'off-topic' posts and started a new thread?

Also I'd be interested to hear your proposals for competition rules if you're not happy with the current ones suggested. Those rules are by no means final and this is a democracy. Your input is welcomed.

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Mad dog
Just had an idea while talking with AS on IRC.

Instead of results per week, people should have to generate a certain number of points a week. That way people with low end systems can still partake in the compo, so long as they put the time in.

What do you think?

Im against using points. We have debated this one before and although it was intended to reward those with lesser systems there is an easy way around it. Results can't be cheated...either you turn one in or you don't.

Rather then making it so complex and posting a poll at TGW, I think we should just stick with what has worked. 10 results allowed just about everybody to be eligible for a prize the last time around. It's not that difficult to achieve. You just have to average a little over 1 result a day. That's peanuts.

Prod...thanks for the data!

AmStoned

01-20-2002, 07:38 PM

Everybody just calm the @#$%ing down in here. Bits made this board so members rule, so if MD has a new idea, we should vote on it.

Prod: Sorry man, just returned that big piece of shit. But in case you want to know, dimensions are 16Lx10Wx4H, 3lbs.

floppybootstomp

01-20-2002, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Iron Chef

10 results allowed just about everybody to be eligible for a prize the last time around. It's not that difficult to achieve. You just have to average a little over 1 result a day. That's peanuts.

Agreed. I think even my little K6-2 could manage that in the given time.

And let's not lose sight of what we're after doing here - helping to find a cure for cancer. It ain't about just sitting back, knowing the rules are easy and that you're automatically going to be entered into the 'raffle'. Nope.

I think some effort should be made to make an individual eligible for a prize. And if that means leaving your rig on 24/7, so be it. I've got three (soon to be four) rigs going non-stop, which can be a bit awkward at times, those guys overseeing multiple setups, (lurch, JD, Stoner just to name a few) spend a lot of time and effort keeping them running.

Sorry, but to be eligible for a prize, it finger-pulling-out time.

Don't wanna hear no 'I can't leave my rig on overnight' type stuff. Either you make an effort or you don't.

And we also (mostly) after attracting new members to Team PC so's we can make the Top 50.

Don't lose sight of our TEAM target. To do well is a buzz. We've whupped a lot of Corporate ass so far. We can do better.

The prize thing is just a bonus. The main thing is the cure and secondly our team ranking.

So let's sort this thing out pretty damn quck.

If I appear harsh, my apologies, I'm in one of those moods right now, but can we please pull together on this one?

Goodnight :D

AmStoned

01-20-2002, 07:55 PM

@#$%ing A, you gonna force me to buy another system? BTW, I have ONE goddamn system. The multiple systems is a result of me reinstalling the system every week in the past. But I'll come up with something... time to install UD on all the cheap ass sytems.

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 08:01 PM

Stoner...your XP system can't return 10 results per week? In the last contest, you qualified for every drawing except two (i think). I am under the assumption that you aren't running it 24/7 so if you did, 10 results should be a piece of cake.

I have to agree with Flops, we should at least persuade the members to put an effort if they want to qualify for the prizes.

MD, sorry bro I didn't mean to come across argumentative. I thought you brought up a good point about maybe 40 results being too much so I suggested we revert to our old qualification rules. Your idea about posting a poll at TGW is a very good one, but I think we can come up with something without that input.

floppybootstomp

01-20-2002, 08:04 PM

Arrrgh... I just walked three times round the garden and kinda calmed down. And it's cold and dark out there. I just in one of them moods tonight, maybe it's my time of the month? :D

I always thought as you worked in that lab you had loads going. But you have Macs there right? Sorry, didn't realise.

Anyway, all I was trying to say was that under the proposed 'rules' one rig should make you eligible even if it means a little extra effort, is all.

Damn, I better go to bed before foot magically inserts itself into mouth....

prod

01-20-2002, 08:04 PM

Also dont forget the younger members and those who have to pay per-minute dialup charges. Do we want to exclude them?
Hope not.

ImaginAsian

01-20-2002, 08:26 PM

Definately don't want to exclude if we can help it! As for the per-minute dialup charges, UD takes about a minute to connect to server to send the results back each time. Of course, the initial download my take a bit 2MB.

What do you mean about the younger members, prod?

Mad dog

01-20-2002, 08:57 PM

Phew!

For a min there i thought i'd managed to start WW3 of in the forums but all seem to have calmed down now.

I spose the thing we are trying to do here is recruit more members who are dedicated to the cause/team. We don't want to exclude anybody who will give their maximum to the team from the comp yet we don't want to just let every last rabscalion into the team so they can win prizes.

It's a hard balance to find, we are going to have to comprimise one way or the other and people will disagree on which comprimise to make - that life - i just hope we can be civil about our diagreements (and we all usually are on these forums).

There have been some intersting points raised here and one of them being about younger members. I'm talking about teenagers who love to game but still answer to thier perants. They may want to leave their PCs on all night but the perants will say no, and complain about bills and such stuff. I even have my mum moan at me while i'm at home and i'm 21!

It's a hugely complex thing this combo, i think there are more opinions on this than the last one because the prizes are huge in comparison ( i think thats human greed showing through, nothing to be ashamed of).

I just hope we can work it all out pretty soon.

KaraK

01-21-2002, 12:14 AM

A little late though I might be I'm with MD on this one every cycle counts so lets pack em in :)

for the record TV my personal systems consist of an T'Bird 800 and a Duron 600 clocked to 800. So in answer to your question, that would be me.

PS: None of my other active UD machines are over 1gig either and they are all owned by quite average people... maybe not hardcore gamers but still useful info no ?

prod

01-21-2002, 09:51 AM

Exactly, younger members may not be allowed to keep the computer on all the time.
And most would not be able to set up connect/disconnect on their dialup account, so they would just stay connected and pay per minute charges.

Mad dog

01-21-2002, 12:14 PM

I can see this debate going round in circles, we have to arrive at a decision soon before we all get dizzy and confused.

muckshifter

01-21-2002, 02:12 PM

flops
Don't wanna hear no 'I can't leave my rig on overnight' type stuff. Either you make an effort or you don't. Sorry love, I may be deaf (well hard of hearing) but mine & Netti's go off before we go to bed. I need the quiet. ;)

Techvillage

01-21-2002, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by KaraK
A little late though I might be I'm with MD on this one every cycle counts so lets pack em in :)

for the record TV my personal systems consist of an T'Bird 800 and a Duron 600 clocked to 800. So in answer to your question, that would be me.

PS: None of my other active UD machines are over 1gig either and they are all owned by quite average people... maybe not hardcore gamers but still useful info no ?

Karak - this is absolutely the sort of info we are after - we have to know this info so we can set a realistic threshold rather than grab an arbitary figure out of the air :)

I have cruised Icrontic just out of curiosity, and the vast majority are running 1 gigs and over, so while Im not saying peolle aren't running rigs lower than most, we are targetting gamers on a gamer site, and most gamers tend to have powerful rigs.

My take on this is that once we know what Mr Average with his average PC can attain then we base the threshold on that. I don't believe we should base the threshold on the very bottom of the scale.

The other thing is the competitive spirit - we should strive to push ourselves.

One last thing, if the younger members can't attain the threshold set, then in my day we used to use our initiative, our "gumption", a little bit of cunning to work out how we could do something that was just out of our reach...youth today...want it handed on a plate ;)

By the way, I think we should set the weekly result threshold at 30.

Techvillage

01-21-2002, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by prod
Exactly, younger members may not be allowed to keep the computer on all the time.
And most would not be able to set up connect/disconnect on their dialup account, so they would just stay connected and pay per minute charges.

UD monitor would do the trick for that - it caches up results and you then send out the whole ot at once.

AmStoned

01-21-2002, 04:10 PM

One last thing, if the younger members can't attain the threshold set, then in my day we used to use our initiative, our "gumption", a little bit of cunning to work out how we could do something that was just out of our reach...youth today...want it handed on a plate

Well said Tech. If the kiddies want in, they better work their little noggins.

muckshifter

01-21-2002, 04:31 PM

Hmmm, 30 a week are a little steep.

I joined the team 21 days ago and have only just returned 30 … and I have three machines working, LadyMuck has returned 14 results and just has the one system. James is not fairing that much better.

The idea is NOT to put anybody off joining the team and you could win some prizes.

I may have to reconsider how I donate my prizes. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I would like everyone to stand a chance of winning something.

Skamp

01-21-2002, 04:43 PM

You guys have forgotten that IA originally set 40 unit per two weeks not one week,so what TV should be saying is 30 units in 2 weeks!

Techvillage

01-21-2002, 04:48 PM

ooops - really sorry guys - I meant a balance between the 40 and 20 origanally being talked about - if it's two weeks, then that's what it should be - sorry guys.

floppybootstomp

01-21-2002, 05:10 PM

So we're looking at 15 a week minimum eh? Supposing you got just the one rig and you get nothing but them big buggers that take at least 36 hours to process? And you got a decent rig as well.

IA is posting atm about a real long WU and he's got a 1.55Ghz setup.

I figure out you get one of them big buggers one after the other you gonna be lucky to return 5 results in one week. So tough shit jack, you don't qualify.

Now if performance was judged by points rather than returns, that would be a much fairer indication cos it would show you'd actually made an effort to keep your machine chuggin' over.

But IA says nope, definitely not a points based system, so that's that.

I know I agreed in a previous post that 1 return a day is peanuts, but I been thinking it over. I've had nothing but big WU's lately and it would be hard to achieve 10 a week right now.

Fekkit, I'm offa this thread (apart from viewing) work it out yourselves.

I think, in 13 months of swappin' text on one forum or another, this is probably the first time I've disagreed with IA. Nowt personal my man, but I don't like the sound of this setup.

AmStoned

01-21-2002, 05:12 PM

:( Looks like we got a situation here. Like I said before, not everyone has multiple setups, and those that does have it don't necessarily have top notch systems. My average up time for the XP is 6PM (after work/school) - 2AM (Sleep) on week days, and 10AM - 2AM on weekends. My average return is almost 1 per day. This is just my example, so don't start screaming, "Stoner, you cheap bastard, you're not in for the cause. If you are, you should leave it on 24/7." You know what, :FU: I work part time, I have to pay the rent, the utilities, car insurance, and I certainly don't have spare change to get a new system every month. But some of yous will say in return, " :FU: Stoner, I gotta pay for a lot more shit than you..." I'm sorry, but how many systems have you installed UD on again? I'll be frank, and tell y'all why I returned the PAE for some cables, 'cause I could'nt pay for the more expensive item. Fuck it if I can't win a prize, my offer still stands. As long as we got a bunch of people joining Team PC, I'm satisfy. Taking the population in to consideration, most "gamers" have two systems at home, assume they are close to 1Gs, returns 1 unit per day with my schedule, that gives us 14 returns per week +/- 2. Assume leave all full time bastards/opportunists who can pump out more units per week than stocks Enron VPs unloaded before the bandruptcy out of the equation, we'll use the upper MOE as the base for returns per week, or 16. We've been arguing over this crap for the past week, now, are we going to put up a poll for returns per week or what?

On the other hand, I really like MD's proposal of using points. By using points, it ain't about how many systems you can drop UD on, but how much effort you put into the least amount of resource you have. Suppose we use the points system, the avg. points per result for Team PC is 69. Now if you return one result a day, that would make 483 points a week, but due to systems that returned results in under and an hour without much effort, or should I say, hits that could lead to cure, that avg. could be much much higher. So screw you IA, I'm proposing we use 500 points per week as qualification.

Damn, I better get me bong and chill out for a minute.:rasta: My apologies if I offended anyone.

muckshifter

01-21-2002, 05:30 PM

Stoner ... my point exactly.

Mull on this one...

Rules.

1/ If your in the PC Team then your name is in the hat.

2/ You must be active (have returned 1 result for that week)

3/ KISS

End of rules

Techvillage

01-21-2002, 06:38 PM

OK, here's an idea - Rather than use result or points - how about using PC times - everybody has to put in say a given amount of time each week - I noticed from Prods screen dump of his UD stats - that he had put in 4 days over an 8 day period.

If we say that every body has to put in a certain number of hours each week - this can be checked on the Stats page - this means that no matter what PC's they are running ( a second hand pass me down or a latest state of the art kick butt) monster) - we know that they have they have at least dedicated a certain amount of their PC time/pc cyles to it.

This should make it fair to all, so no matter what a persons means are, provided a certain amount of time is spent running UD each week then whether you are running a 486 or a +XP 2000 you are eligible to go towards the prizes.

Just a thought....

ImaginAsian

01-21-2002, 07:12 PM

Hehe everyone, let's not get too emotional about this one :) It's starting to take the fun out of the whole prize idea in the first place.

My opinion is results and my opinion is just one voice. It's not set in stone that's how its gotta be because this is a team effort 100%. Remember the rules were a DRAFT only.

I see where you all are coming from with points. If we do decide to do points, what number we going to choose? I don't have a lot of experience or history with a "good" point threshold and I was borrowing from our first contests' history to convince me 10 results was a very makeable limit for 90% of us.

My biggest issue with it points are awarded primarily on how long it took to return that result. The timer continues to run whether UD has 100% CPU cycle or 0% CPU cycle. So if any application or process is competing for CPU Cycles, your result total goes down but your points total goes up. And there would be no way of telling the "story".

Tek - your hours idea is a good one. Although it suffers from the same explanation as above, at least we could pick a hour threshold which I feel we can make a better judgement what is enough "effort".

We could entertain reducing the results total down from 10 as Mucks has suggested. I think 1 results is a bit low but somewhere in between 1 and 10?.

My biggest fear is getting all these new members who are just temporary to win prizes and they leave after the contest ends. I'd personally rather just see a few people join the team but stay then many join and most leave. Honestly, i'd rather see the prizes go out to the long-time team members since at least I know they are in it for the long haul. Getting to the Top 50 is a huge achievement, but remaining in the Top 50 would be just as monumental.

Tell you what guys, the last contest was organized by me, Rando and 0-60. I'll just stay out of this one...you guys decide and I'll go with it!

Techvillage

01-21-2002, 07:33 PM

Hey guys whats happening here? , we have IA and Flopps pulling out of the joint decision making - Yes, there is some heat being raised - why? Becuase we all care about it and have strong feelings. Now't wrong with that

Every body come back to the table, and we will calmly discuss, it now that we have got all our thoughts, and differences of opion out in the air.

Lets try and come to a draft to go to vote fairly shortly.

My new preference is measurements in time rather than points or results. Make the machime time something like 5 hours a day...

This is all open to discussion.

Please everybody, come back to the table.

James

01-21-2002, 08:46 PM

First my post about postal fees has gone into the twilight zone,i can not find it here!

A thought,while Furton has graciously donated web space and a link to this contest,i keep hearing how we are trying to enlist gamers and thier high tech rigs.

Point:we do want anyone to join our team.
Point:if they don't run 24/7 how many free cycles do you think you'll get from some one fragging the shit out of thier rig 10 hours a day.
Point:We don't need time-up,points or results because thats all bullshit,that don't add up mathamatically to the effort put into the cause.
Point: Average points per result,should make the most even playing field IMO.
[H] Point:i am not going to figure that all out.

And the finish:Any donaters west of the Mississippi can send me the prize,doubble wraped (second layer my address,FIRST layer the winner,and i will pay the postage from here to them (with ONE exception) if somebody in Hawaii wins Stoners prize,HE Pays :beer:

ImaginAsian

01-21-2002, 11:06 PM

Hey Tek, I'm still here on the table with you all. Just stepping back from the podium :)

Whatever you all decide, I'll support because you all bring up very valid points. Just hope my 2nd to last paragraph gets considered.

Techvillage

01-22-2002, 06:07 AM

So what's your point James? ;) :)

floppybootstomp

01-22-2002, 06:53 AM

OK, I calmed down. I'll stop stamping my little feet and pouting like a spoilt kid.

And if any of my former posts in this thread offended anyone, I apologise :p

If one thing has become clear, it's that we're all never going to agree on how to go about this thing.

Answer: A poll! (and yep, I know it's already been suggested).

I humbly suggest we draw up a list of options and let the membership decide.

Now I'm just wondering what those options would be were we to have a poll. Anybody want to make suggestions?

I personally like James' idea of points per return, that, to me, seems fairest.

Is there a way of monitoring that information? IA? You seem the most familiar with the way UD is run and good at gathering statistics.... (please....).

Just an observation: The system IA, Rando & 0-60 put into place worked, didn't it? Nobody complained (AFAIK) and it went smoothly.

Also, whichever new members join, there is never going to be a guarantee they'll stay for the long term. Never. You're bound to get a few who'll just come along for the chance of winning a prize. Others may join the Forum and stay, others may just stay.

There just ain't no way of telling.

floppybootstomp

01-22-2002, 07:02 AM

...below is a 'snapshot' of how my three currently active rigs are doing right at this moment.

top pic: KT7RAID, T-Bird 1.3.

middle pic: FIC VA503+ K6-2 400

lower pic: MSI K7T Turbo Duron 750.

Mad dog

01-22-2002, 07:14 AM

I have to ask this, but are we being a bit snobish about who we want to join the team? If we are, are we happy with this?

Anyway i came up with an idea about the whole points/hours/results debate. How about as the prizes go up in value, you have to return more points/hours/results to qualify for the draw. That would let some of the peope with low end system still have a chance at wining a prize and the people with high end systems would be rewarded for the extra power.

I'd think this would make everyone happy. We could start with a miniume results(assuming we decide on results) of 3-5, then go to 7-10 and so forth toping out at about 30 or 40 maybee?

What do you think?

floppybootstomp

01-22-2002, 07:26 AM

I think we're going round in circles. I think we need somebody who's knowledgable of the UD setup to put forward some ideas for a poll. I think we should keep it simple.

That's what I think :D

and, er, big respec to you MD, just my thoughts, is all :)

Mad dog

01-22-2002, 08:52 AM

Ok so i've gona and done what needed to be done. I've posted a whole load of polls on the issues of contention for you lot to vote on.

If there is an issue not covered, post your own poll. After we get a good chunk of results then we can draw up a final draft of the rules and vote to see if the majority agree with them.

So get voting people!:dir:

ImaginAsian

01-22-2002, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by floppybootstomp
I personally like James' idea of points per return, that, to me, seems fairest.

Is there a way of monitoring that information? IA? You seem the most familiar with the way UD is run and good at gathering statistics.... (please....).

Just an observation: The system IA, Rando & 0-60 put into place worked, didn't it? Nobody complained (AFAIK) and it went smoothly.

Also, whichever new members join, there is never going to be a guarantee they'll stay for the long term. Never. You're bound to get a few who'll just come along for the chance of winning a prize. Others may join the Forum and stay, others may just stay.

There just ain't no way of telling.

Indeed James came up with a good idea about avg points/result. There is a way of monitoring/obtaining the information but its not easily accessible. That statistic is not tracked on the team member homepage. Instead, you would have to use the member comparison feature to get it which unfortunately becomes quite time consuming as team size grows. Time I don't think anyone has enough of to do for the contest duration. The stats which get tracked automatically on the team page include results, points and CPU Time (hours). Preferably we choose one of those to make data collection and calculations simple.

Only thing about avg pts/result is that fast machines typically show significantly lower pts/result then slow machines. So this sort of "penalizes" the fast machines for doing their job faster. And since this is a historical average, no real way of ensuring the member has returned at least a result for that week. I suppose this could be used in conjunction with another stat. But moot point now, in light of paragraph above?

Flops, you are right that we can never guarantee members will stay for the long haul no matter what rules we decide on. We can maximize our chances to keep people by making the contest structured so they have to at least put some effort into it. In return, that may spark their interest to remain as they learn more about the project rather then simply seeing a chance to win prizes and the ability to win it rather easily with the least amount of effort on their part.

Hehe...the same issues Rando, 0-60, and myself chewed on for days on the first contest is creeping up again.

Poll away folks...vote and that's how its gonna be :)

Techvillage

01-22-2002, 12:34 PM

Well done Dawg for organising the polls - that is the only way of sorting this - and we have to agree to the polls right chaps!!!

I kinda glad we got all our differences out in the air and settled rather than bottled up.

Bit one thing has clearly been shown in the ay I see it is that it's paramount we have an administrator/leader to taking this forward or we are going to go around in circles as Flopps said.

As far as I'm concerned IA is the Team Captain and would like to see him commanding again as this has been a bit of a rudderless boat this week.

prod

01-22-2002, 12:56 PM

MD: I dont know about that scaling prizes idea. Might make people with lesser rigs feel a little cheated - they cant win the top prizes because they cant afford a new computer every year. Also it would narrow down the best prizes to 2 or 3 members - you know who you are ;)
I prefer one minimum for all prizes. I thought 10/wk results was ok. Did anyone here have a real problem with 10? Not that I saw.

Techvillage

01-22-2002, 03:18 PM

I hear ya Prod - but what I can tell you that I thought the prizes given out last time were very fairly drawn - the team results leaders were certainly did no better in the prize drawings than anybody else :)

ImaginAsian

01-23-2002, 10:34 AM

Hehe...as it should be with a random drawing :)

Funny thing is Rando, 0-60, and myself actually did win for several drawings but we won our OWN donations....whee :D
So as you can see, we had to redraw another winner.

KaraK

01-23-2002, 10:44 AM

just curious IA.. why didnt u exclude urselves from drawings for ur own prizes

ImaginAsian

01-23-2002, 10:50 AM

Good Point KK...nothing more then sheer laziness :)

Yes your chances of winning would have improved by 1 person I suppose. I'll make sure to do that this time around!

KaraK

01-23-2002, 11:09 AM

i guess its something that'll be more of an issue this time around with the prizes coming from so many different donators

026TB4U

01-23-2002, 11:23 AM

Actually, we excluded ourselves from any prize for the contest. At least IA and myself did. I too was picked (for a nice prize might I add :D) but whenever that happened, we just repicked. I guess statistically, by eliminating ourselves would improve the odds, but it has the same overall effect since we didn't accept any prizes.

The main reason we did the drawing was to attract new people, so that's why we didn't accept any prizes. Not to mention it would be a little strange for people doing the drawing winning a prize, don't you think?

Mad dog

01-24-2002, 04:57 PM

Not really sure about that last point. Both you and IA put the required effort into the competition so why shouldn't you be eligable for the prizes?

Techvillage

01-24-2002, 05:07 PM

If I win the prize that I donated, I wouldn't accept it either - everybody has different feelings about it :)

muckshifter

01-24-2002, 06:30 PM

I agree with you in one respect Tech, but I would like to win something ... anything realy ... just so I could tell my Grandkids that I won. :D

KaraK

01-24-2002, 06:30 PM

MD.. in an ideal world I'd agree with you but there would be far too many cries of "fix" if they won stuff

Techvillage

01-24-2002, 06:41 PM

Mucks - just tell your grandkids about all those super prizes you donated - but yea I know what you mean, I would like to win something too :)

ImaginAsian

01-24-2002, 08:14 PM

Hehe...don't you worry folks...this time around both 0-60 and I will be eligible for prizes :D

*cracks knuckles while plotting "random" drawing results*

:bomb: :bomb: :bomb: :bomb: :bomb: :bomb: :bomb:

Skamp

01-24-2002, 10:10 PM

Im putting my head on a block here:guillotin and dont take this the wrong way IA or 0-60,but it might be a problem and it will leave some people thinking,when one of the prize drawers wins one of the big prizes!! Whos to say wheather it was fixed or not.
Sorry to add another twist to the problems this comp has been having........but its worth thinking about!!

In real life official lotteries,the officials are not in the comp for that very reason.Im not saying that IA and 0-60 cant be in the comp,and IM NOT saying they will rig the comp for their benefit,but I ask the members to think about what they will think when one of the Officials wins the Grand Prize!!!

Something to think about.

ImaginAsian

01-24-2002, 10:21 PM

Now you know what 0-60 and IA was thinking on the last contest. We were screwed if we won hehe....

Well this is what we did to make it fair and will do on this one....0-60 did the stats. I took the stats and randomized all the qualifiers. 0-60 chose a number (not seeing my list) and voila....

You don't think I wanted to win the Alpha 8045 from Cats...man I was licking my chops!!!

But in all fairness here, someone has to pull the drawings. And since we aren't an official sweepstakes company, we don't have neutral parties to choose from so why not your good friends IA and 0-60 :)