XP1800, XP1600 or T-Bred??

[ImaginAsian]

Man I haven't upgraded in a long long time. Running a 1.0G AXIA at 1.55G Tbird for better part of 7 months now. Im itchin to upgrade and with the latest round of AMD Price Cuts those XP chips look tasty.

I know the T-bred's are coming out in about a month to two but Im thinking those prices aren't going to be $100. They will probably be in the high $200 - $300 and not affect the XP pricing at all on the lower end.

So here is the question...should I get an XP chip. If so, which one? The 1600 at aroun $80 or the 1800 around $100. I know the XP are nice overclockers but will the 1600 get me over 1.55G? Is the $20 worth it or the 1600 and 1800 the same stepping and same OC potential. I've been out of the OC XP scene, so help is appreciated!

And yes I am a cheap ass so none of you have to say it again :D

[floppybootstomp]

You're a cheap ass! :Tong:

I'd say it was a good idea, very economical upgrade that I feel sure you'd notice.

Not being that well versed in this particular subject, I'd say vote with your wallet. If you can manage it, go for the 1800.

And I'm sure you'll be able to get a few bob back on your old CPU as well.

Keep us posted on what you do :)

[AmStoned]

Go for the 1800+ man. The worst you can do is OC that baby to 1.7G. I mean why the hell would you want to waste your money on a 1600+ when it's slower then your existing OCed Tbird? Wait one more week then get the 1800+, it'll be around 105 then.

[ImaginAsian]

Why the 2000+? I think its at least $50 more and there is not much OC overhead since its already near the XP Palomino frequency ceiling.

EDIT: Just checked pricewatch and that baby is running about $70 more then the 1800...yikes!

[ImaginAsian]

Flops, Stoner...u guys are right, I should get the 1800+. Its at the very least my current frequency and it should hit 1.7G easily with my cooling setup. I could risk it with the 1600+ trying to get the same level but it could bomb and come in right around 1.55G which doesn't do me jack besides minor improvements from the "uanti-speed" architecture.

Im more excited about the lower operating temps to tell you the truth then the increase in frequency cuz really, can anyone tell a difference between 200 MHz nowadays other then benchmarks :beatsme:

Sweet...Newegg has the 1800+ for $110 + $7 fedex....tempting. I'll wait for more opinions from my bruthas....

[AmStoned]

Man, both of you STFU. Price list on XP this week -

1600 (1.40) = 91
1700 (1.47) = 100
1800 (1.53) = 110 (just dropped another dollar)
1900 (1.60) = 139
2000 (1.67) = 191
2100 (1.73) = 241

Simply put, if you get the 2000 over the 1800, you need to have your brain examined, 'cause you can easily OC a 1800 to 2100. Besides, the Tbred's around the corner, if you are planning on getting a 2000, why not save up that money for a Tbred?

[AmStoned]

One more thing mango, to get lower tempt, you'll need the combination of XP and WinXP 'cause WinXP has built-in idle and halt command for the CPU.

[ImaginAsian]

Where'd you get the price list from...official AMD list? I just did a quick pricewatch check and it showed the cheapest 1800+ to be $100 and the 2000+ to be $173...

If I was going to spend $173, I would just wait for the Tbred. Spending approx $100 for something to hold me through while the Tbreds mature sounds tasty.

So who wants a 1.0 AXIA Tbird @ 1.55G chip for like $50 :)

EDIT: I run UD at 100% so what the HLT instructions won't help right? Besides, I thought the Palomino's were designed to consume less wattage straight up agains the TBird's?

[ImaginAsian]

No Skamp, Im wouldn't immediately be upgrading to the Tbred when it comes out :)

If I got the 1800, I wouldn't upgrade to the Tbred until it matures and the prices come down from the $200-300 range which AMD will price the first Tbred's at. By then they will offer different speedgrades and something nearer the $100-150 mark.

[AmStoned]

NewEgg man. Where else. And no mango, the halt command on WinXP WILL have your CPU run cooler even w/ UD running. I've tried running UD in WinME and WinXP (gotta love mobile racks) and the WinME tempt is 3-4C hotter w/ 1800+ @ 1.7G.

[ImaginAsian]

Sweet. Gotta go see if W2K has the HLT instructions built in - I thought they did but will check. I don't feel like upgrading to WinXP anytime soon...too lazy.

But that's not making sense right? If the HLT instructions are there to idle the CPU, then technically the CPU wouldn't get there if UD was running full steam. Unless, WinXP is making UD run slower by competing with UD. Sort of like what CPUCool does, I can run it and enable the Athlon cooling but it brings UD to 33% speed.

Man I got lots to learn about XP.

[tim]

Cue tim....

Win2K and WinXP use the HLT in the same manner.
The use of the HLT instruction is part of power management.
It is the 'System Idle Process' that calls the PM interface to do any power saving stuff. If the ''System Idle Process' gets no CPU time (like when UD is running) then PM (and thus HLT) will not get invoked.

BUT....

I know that for the original Athlon TB above 1.2Gig (I think) HLT was disabled to aviod stabilty problems when using HLT at such high speeds. This is why those with Abit KT7/KT7A mobo's experienced big temp rises with bios ver 3N. Ver 3N was the first Abit bios to disable HLT for the faster CPU's

I don't know if this applies to the Athlon XPs.

IA, go for the XP 1800+. You know you want it don't ya?

or was is bios ver 3R?

[ImaginAsian]

Ok so then how does Kiwi get lower temps in WinXP with the HLT instructions if UD is running full speed? yo man...what u smoking over there by the bay bridge :p

TIm...ya know the 1800+ makes the most sense definately. I think that's what most people gonna tell me except one...0-60...he would tell me to get the tbred!

[AmStoned]

Don't ask me, I don't want to know all the freaking specs, I ain't some quantum physics scientist. All I know is I get lower tempt WinXP full load w/ UD then I do w/ WinME. Find out for yourself by installing WinXP DJ Mango, lazy bastard... BTW, I'm comparing WinME tempt w/ WinXP tempt, thus the drop. If what tim said is true, you should get lower tempt w/ the 1800 too.

[ImaginAsian]

Kewl...i should see some nice temps with the XP chip then. BTW, yep the Palomino supposedly reduceds power consumption by 20%. Got this from The Tech Report's Review...

The Palomino core packs in a number of enhancements designed to improve the Athlon's performance, and scalability. Among them:


Lower power requirements — Thanks to some changes in the way the chip is made, the Palomino requires about 20% less power than corresponding Thunderbird chips. As you might expect, that means the Palomino runs quite a bit cooler than the T-bird, as well. (For this reason, the Palomino first hit the market as a mobile processor for notebook computers, in the form of the oddly named "Athlon 4" processor.)
Despite the changes, the Palomino is still made on the same 0.18-micron copper fab process as current Athlons. Intel will soon deliver a die-shrunk Pentium 4, but it will take a while for AMD to make the conversion to 0.13 microns. AMD likes to point out that even a 0.13-micron Pentium 4 has a larger die size than a 0.18-micron Athlon XP.


An on-chip thermal diode — Like Intel's Pentium III and 4 processors, the Palomino core includes an on-chip thermal diode for temperature monitoring and better power management.

Hardware pre-fetch — Performance-wise, this may be the most important addition to the Palomino. The hardware pre-fetch logic attempts to anticipate what data will be needed from main memory next and preemptively loads this data into the processor's L1 cache. This enhancement, which is similar to logic present in Intel's Pentium 4 and Pentium III "Tualatin" processors, should allow the Athlon to take better advantage of the extra memory bandwidth available with advanced forms of memory like DDR SDRAM.

Improved translation look-aside buffers (TLB) — Though more esoteric than hardware pre-fetch, improved TLBs ought to complement data pre-fetch logic nicely. The Palomino's revamped TLB structures are now larger, speculative (as one would expect, with hardware pre-fetch now in the picture), and exclusive (no longer shared) between caches. These improved TLBs should help keep the Athlon's pipeline fed, increasing clock-for-clock performance.

SSE compatibility — AMD says the Palomino includes 52 new instructions that comprise something called "3DNow! Professional." These instructions just happen to correspond to the instructions the original Athlon needed in order to be compatible with Intel's SSE, or streaming SIMD extensions. These extra instructions do not provide compatibility with the Pentium 4's new SSE2 instructions, but they should yield improved performance in applications optimized for SSE but not for AMD's competing 3DNow! extensions.

More transistors — To accommodate these new features, the Palomino weighs in at about half a million more transistors than the Athlon Thunderbird, up from 37 million to 37.5 million.

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/athlonxp/index.x?pg=1

[ImaginAsian]

Dammit...I couldn't resist. With the inputs, I went with the XP 1800+ from www.twco.com for $101 + 7 shipping....hellz yeah :yes:

Man this thing better OC to 1.7G or Im gonna be pissed :D

Thanks for all the inputs fellas :thumbsup:

PS 0-60 tried to make me buy a tbred over ICQ :P

[JohnnyBra]

IA: what cooling setup are you running? Alpha PAL 8045 still?

[James]

Your still a CHEAP ASS :)
And will your MB support a T-bred?????

[ImaginAsian]

LOL James that's exactly what 0-60 said should be my excuse :)

Well when the Tbred comes out, I would have gone to DDR anyway since im still running an IWILL KK266-R.

JB...yuppers, Alpha 8045 + 92mm fan mod all in a massive positive airflow case design :) I shouldn't have problems with cooling this XP1800+ at all.

[026TB4U]

Damn,

forgot you're still not running DDR. What a cheap ass. You better stick to the XP then :lol:

[AmStoned]

You what? Still running SDRAM? God damn you're cheap.

[JohnnyBra]

He aint that cheep :P...

I'm still running my KT7A-RAID.... PC 150 SDRAM.... :/

Would love to upgrade, but lack the cash..

well.. truthfully the cash is there, and I'd be willing to spend it.. But then I have the "Wrath of the Wife" to contend with :(

[ImaginAsian]

Word JB, got to back a brutha up when he's getting framed for another crime by the fruit munches on this forum :D

This IWILL has been rock solid for the last 7 months...its happily running at 155FSB at 1.55G UD 24/7!

Hey u guys got news of the Barton Chip? Looks like AMD gonna increase the cache to 512K! That's huge.

[KaraK]

I guess its too late to stick my oar in here. but I'd have waited. I dont think the perfromance increase will be that noticeable.

[ImaginAsian]

True KK...but I figured I owed myself an nice little upgrade and like the challenge to OC this thing to 1.8 :) $100 ain't too shabby for that and it will also help pump out more result for UD :yes:

I probably won't even notice the speed difference heh.

[frombadtraverse]

A bird in the hand is worth two Bushes. Sorry, that should have been; a bird in the hand is worth two engineering samples (release date TBA).

[Case]

Nice Mobo IA - I have the KK266-R on the wifes, and mine is the KK266 plus. Love 'em. Upgraded from two Abit KT7's with voltage mods. See, ya got good taste!

[miller]

Im still running a KT7 and a 1.33Ghz chip... :(

Hopefully will be upgrading to a dualie system soon.. :)

[AmStoned]

BTW IA, just who is going to unlock your XP chip when you're timid on the mod subject? I read an article on overclockers a few months that mentioned unlocking using cell phone circuit board repair kit, and is by far the easiest I've seen. You just stick a piece of plastic w/ condutive traces from the kit and tape it on top of the bridges you want to connect, and done. Now if I could find the place that sells the kit...

[ImaginAsian]

Man its all about the hookups and my homie Rando has kindly accepted to unlock the chip for me :)

U see I have dropped 0-60 mod productions and went with a new client :D

So I say again, who needs a 1.0 AXIA that has hit 1.55G for $60 shipped!

[ImaginAsian]

It's heeeerrrreeee!!!

Baby is gonna be shipped to Rando tomorrow so he can unlock it with his fine craftsmanship and then the fun begins...thanks again bro :cheer:

Zemuss's gonna buy my AXIA so we keep the fast chips in our Team BBT family :yes:

AGOGA stepping...anybody got the lowdown?

[AmStoned]

Weird, you got a 2002 week 3 chip, yet it's a brownie. They must hate you mango. I don't know man, they chips varie. my 1700 AGOGA went up 200.

[ImaginAsian]

Are the green ones more overclockable?

[Rando]

Originally posted by ImaginAsian
thanks again bro :cheer:

Hey no sweat my man!, glad to be of service:) I'll be sure and let ya know if it's a stinker or not!

J/K, that'd be kinda like telling ya if the ending to a movie you was watching was a good or bad one now wouldn't it, besides, I don't want to run the risk of it crapping out on me, I'll just keep it at rated speed and run the mult. to confirm it's unlocked, then get it on it's way:D

[ImaginAsian]

I got the unlocked XP back from Rando today folks and can I get a hell yeah!!

Unscrewed my Alpha, Took out my 1.0G AXIA, slapped on some Artic Silver 3 on the XP 1800+, screwed back my Alpha 8045 and voila im sitting at

11 x 155 = 1.7GHz just like that!! Upgrade tooke all of 5 minutes thanks to the backside mobo cutout...man I am so glad I asked 0-60 for that mod!!

Here's a WCPUID shot...I'll try to get this baby to 1.8G this weekend.

Many thanks to Rando!!!

PS Katz...here kitty kitty come and get me on UD :D

[KaraK]

Hell Yeah!

[Rando]

Folks, you'll notice the date of IA's post of shipping the chip to me, and todays date. Well, reason being is I fubard his chip, evidently AMD is burning the bridge trenches deeper these days, and the copper underlay is exposed(mentioned in this (http://www.vr-zone.com/guides/AMD/AthlonXPUnlock/) how-to), so just laying on the conductive silver will short the bridges, which for me, resulted in a multplier only good for 11 and above, and there is no reversal, you can't clean it out!

Now, last one I unlocked was the one I won from the AMD giveaway some time ago, the first of the XP's, and just laying on the conductive paint sufficed, the copper underlay in the trenches were left unexposed, not the case anymore:(

So in the end, I had to purchase a new chip, and to unlock it, I filled the trenches with 15 min. epoxy (5 min. is good, but 15 gives you plenty of time to inspect your work, and clean up in the event of a mess), waited overnight, then connected the bridges. Success! Many how-to's use super-glue to fill the trenches, but from experience, CA becomes brittle over time, so I recommend epoxy, plus it's easier to work with on the chip. I do not recommend the thermal paste method used in the how-to mentioned in the link above.

Did I mention I got me a new XP 1800 unlocked 11 and above??:lol:

[KaraK]

bit of a "doh!" momemt there Rando?

oh well at least the chip is still usable...

[Rando]

Originally posted by KaraK
bit of a "doh!" momemt there Rando?

oh well at least the chip is still usable...

Yes Karak, yes it was:D

Needless to say I was pissed. I hadn't read any of the latest how-to's, didn't feel there was a need, wrong.

It's all good though, it'll be going into wifeys machine, and won't be clocked under 11.5 anyway:)

[floppybootstomp]

Damn bit of bad luck there Rando but as Karak says at least the CPU is still usable. Thanks for letting us all know about that, I suppose somebody was going to do it eventually :(

Just out of interest, how did you apply the epoxy resin considering the tiny size of those trenches? I'm picturing dripping it in with a needle, using a magnifying glass or device, then trimming with very sharp blade after it cures.

Am I thinking along the right lines here?

[ImaginAsian]

Here's the best part of all of this...

Rando told me about the original XP19800+ chip not being able to clock at below 11X and I told him not to sweat it; i can't even begin to unlock myself so I was more then happy to have it unlocked (besides i run 155FSB so I would be at 11x or higher anyway).

And let me just say, his unlock job on the XP is SUPERB. I can't belive how much smaller the L1's are from the TBirds.

He immediately told me that he would replace it and do it again and use the "fubar" chip for his wife's rig....is that a class act or what from my good friend?!

Rando, u da best bro...u da BEST :thumbsup:

Onward to 1.8G I go...

[Rando]

First thing I did was get out the dremel, and put a brush bit on it to prepare the surface of the L1's, then cleaned it off with thinner, but thinner only will suffice, to be sure of your tape sticking. Then I took some cellophane tape(scotch tape), tore off a short piece, and tore that in half, then used the two outside straight edges and placed them on either side of the trenches, just enough to cover the bridge pins and leave the trenches open.

Once I got the tape down and sealed good, I mixed the epoxy, then used a push in tack, the kind with the plastic end so I could grip it, and dobbed on the epoxy. Then I took and placed the tack on it's side and used the flat metal to smooth it out a bit, if you leave the mound on top, after you take the tape off, the mound may spread and cover the bridge pins. Wait a few minutes and remove the tape carefully. I did overnight drying time, but no less than about 5 hrs. Should you happen to cover any of the bridge pins, or a portion of any, after drying, just take a sharp straight pin and gently scrape the epoxy from the top of it, do not use a razor blade to cut or scrape around the pins, as the chip body is plastic these days, and underneath it around the pins is copper, so if you scratch or score around the pins, you'll be looking for something to cover those up to keep from shorting the bridges. Also, should you fubar your work, and need to start over, just use rubbing alcohol while the epoxy is still pliable. That's also one of the advantages of epoxy to CA is being able to clean up before it sets up.

Now, to apply the conductive paint, on my first chip I used a small camel hair brush with the bristles trimmed down to just a few, and cut to 1/4', but I couldn't find the damn thing, so I just used my tack, unlike the smaller, sharper straight pin, the head on the tack is big enough to pick up the conductive paint, and small enough to do a neat job of it, just dab some paint on a piece of paper, stick the end of the tack in it a few times for the first bridge, and once therafter, and your set to go to town:D