MS Access OK for customer database?

**floppybootstomp** · 01-11-2002, 09:46 AM

I need to set up a customer database. The only software I have that I think may be suitable is Access 2002. Which I'd never used until 5 minutes ago.

When I set up my first table I noticed I didn't have the option to add several phone numbers and several contacts. As well as the main phone number for the customer, I need to add individual staff's mobile numbers for instance.

I'm supposing the option is there but haven't really looked deep enough yet.

Anyway, what I'd like to know is, is Access suitable for such a database or does anybody recommend anything (freebie

) else?

**BitBender** · 01-11-2002, 08:59 PM

MYSQL is far superior to Accsuck 2000. It's free...used in thousands of applications worldwide (including ALL VB forums, like this one!), and has TONS of freeware apps out there you can use.

It does take some learning curve if you dont use a prepackaged application, but I like it FAR better than Accsuck 2000. I never found Accsuck 200 to be robust enough for my applications.

My $.02 U. S.

**JohnnyBra** · 01-12-2002, 12:04 AM

I agree with Bits that MySQL is the winner when it comes to comparison..

But if you have NO experience with SQL or databases, then Access is a excelent place to start. It's performance is horriable compared to other products out there, but once you've learned basic SQL in Access, it becomes less "overwhelming" to switch to one of the more involved answers.

Play with access some first.. Then look into MySQL

**prod** · 01-12-2002, 12:13 AM

It sounds like you need something simple, that you can use without a lot SQL knowledge. MS Visual Basic has simple databases built in and actaually uses Access db files and engine.
But I do agree with the other guys, MySQL is tops for me cause its flexible and FREE. Got to do some reading tho. Sounds like you want some second normal form tables.

**BitBender** · 01-12-2002, 12:41 AM

Be sure and define what 'second normal form' is....

Flopps....there are 5 normal forms of data modeling to place information into a database structure, aranged in a inverted tree hirearchy.

For the record, after 25 years in mainframes, and DB2, ORacle, etc, I have never had the priviledge of seeing ANY ONE ever reach the 5th normal form.

The second normal form that Prod was referring to eliminates the the replication of duplicate 'key' refrerences(like the same data field across many records), and introduces something called 'referential integrity'. 'Referential Integrity' Is something along the lines of "If I have car keys, then there MUST be a car that the Key's fit!"

The earlier comments are correct. As a programmer with 20+ years of experience, I sometimes forget that not all have SQL expertise, and thus, using Accsuck 2000 will help you with the basic's.

Prod: Are you a DB Admin? I haven't seen anyone refer the 'second mnormal form' for quite some time!! Excellent reference!

**prod** · 01-12-2002, 02:05 AM

hehe.
Just regurgitating what little I can remember from my db classes. I dont do much db work (yet). Still in college. Working on custom Java db programming right now.

floppybootstomp: you do have what you need in Access, but you need to learn how to use it a little better. The automated setup wont do it. Thats why I dropped the hint that you could do some reading on database theory regarding multiple tables and cross-referencing.

**floppybootstomp** · 01-12-2002, 05:25 AM

It's clear I have some reading and learning to do.

I do need this thing, so, nose to the grindstone eh? I do have one of those 'Easy learn' type books for Access '97, I suppose that will be some help.

And I'll have to have a search for this MYSQL thingie.

Thanks again.

**JohnnyBra** · 01-12-2002, 07:29 AM

SELECT * FROM Internet WHERE INFO-TOPIC = "SQL"
ORDER BY WEBADDRESS;

That's how me and my friends learned SQL.. we had a DB class this past sememster, so to learn the jist of the language, we typed normally daily questions and comments in SQL format. They never quite got their table normalizations down pat, but I thought they were kinda fun. Althought I HATE ERD's (entity relationship diagram). Mapping them out is no problem, but I usually get the cardinality's all messed up.

Classes start again on monday, and I'll be having a "Database Maintance and Report Building" class to further my knowledge of SQL... yay.

Hehe.. seriously, SQL is nice to know. DataBase Admins usually make big $$$$

**floppybootstomp** · 01-12-2002, 07:43 AM

Didn't realise it was one of those 'learn-a-language' thingies

I'm chugging along with Access right now, chose a maintenance call wizard first of all, cos I only got 6 customers there. This GUI based Microsux thing isn't bad but from what I've learnt so far it just don't give me enough options.

I think I need something more flexible.

I just looking at all the info I have to put in, this is going to take quite some time...

And I just remembered I have to create a supplier's base as well.

Ah well, it gotta be done

**JohnnyBra** · 01-12-2002, 08:21 AM

I'm sure Access can do what you're needing, but you may have to forget about the "Wizzards" and do some stuff manually. Access is a pretty robust database tool, it's just kinda slow and unstable compared to other options.

With the wizards, you could probably make a database without knowing SQL,,, but it won't be pretty, will probably not give you all the options you need, and wouldn't be nearly as fun ^_^.

Do a little bit of searching to find some more "Meat and Potatoes" information on Access. The power is there, you only need to unlock it.

**muckshifter** · 01-12-2002, 08:25 AM

Boy you do pick-em.

http://mis.bus.sfu.ca/tutorials/MSAccess/tutorials.html

http://cisnet.baruch.cuny.edu/holowc...accessall.html

http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~thicks/Ac...eDatabase.html

... that should keep you quiet for a month or so.

**floppybootstomp** · 01-12-2002, 08:28 AM

I suspected as much, thanks

Now all I got to learn is self-discipline & patience...

And also to back up regular

I just seen Mucks creep in under there

Thankee sir, I'll take a peek.

**muckshifter** · 01-12-2002, 08:41 AM

Sorry about that Flops, but yes, you have a lot of reading to do.

First use a "pen-n-paper" will save you a lot of time.

However, if you can stick at it ... it can be a very powerful tool.

The last time I did any DB work was back in college ... just scraped through with a "pass". Shame we had to use Access and not something like DB 3 ... a DOS based programme ... now that was "fun".

:sombero:

**Techvillage** · 01-12-2002, 09:32 AM

Hi Flopps - in more detail, what info are you trying to store about your clients?

**floppybootstomp** · 01-12-2002, 09:49 AM

Right now I'm taking Mucks suggestion of 'pen & paper' and collating all the releveant info into a Word document. That's because I have all the info I need spread out over several address books (paper); invoices; quotations; maintenance visit records (In Excel) and other sources. I am totally disorganised atm

A typical entry would be a school's title, address, phone number, fax number, e-mail address; two or three different contacts (Burssar, head teacher, premises manager for instance) their relevant phone extensions, mobile phone numbers & e-mail address; a work record; an invoice record; in some cases a maintenance visit record and last but not least a unique customer ID.

**Techvillage** · 01-12-2002, 10:53 AM

Mucks's suggestion is excellent - collate it into one elctronic area such as Word.

DB's - you either love or hate them - not much of an in between. You gotta have a certain sort of mind and aptitude for DB development. You have the database itself, the you got the front end gui. You then got all the DB drivers which allo w talking betwen the two. DB is such a large specialized area, you can specialise in just designing front end reporting tools for example. We have all sorts of DB's at work, Oracle, Sybase, SQL, Access, Borland, I have to know them, but I don't like them

My advice to you, is that unless you enjoy mucking about with DB's, either keep what you want do very simple or find an off the shelf prog that does most of what you want.

You won't on a Sunday afternoon do what you want to do with Access - there is quite a big learning curve, even with all the wizards and sample DB's built into it. So unless you want to go into, or mucking about in creating DB's as a hobby - then keep it simple, and find an easy to use DB or an off the shelf proggy.

We got a number of people here who runs small business, what is everybody else using?

Lastly, the DB's guys here are gonna cringe, but if you want to build a DB, but want a fairly small lurning curve , then you will find File Maker Pro a lot easier than Access.

**ImaginAsian** · 01-12-2002, 11:20 AM

I agree with everybody here...if you just gonna tinker, use Access or FilleMaker Pro. It will shield the heavy DB-centric stuff from you so you won't have to really know SQL. Just make sure you keep up on the latest patches from MS. Access has had some nasty bugs which corrupts the DB

But...MySQL is really the sheeznit and you have a big experience base right here to help you out. Besdies, SQL is a fun and VERY Easy DB language. If you want full control, go with MySQL.

**JohnnyBra** · 01-12-2002, 12:58 PM

Another great thing w/ SQL is how everythign speaks it! It's pretty easy to create a VisualBasic or C++ program to act as a front end for your new database. Sure, you may not want to go that far, but it's a nice touch.

SQL is basically just the language. Virtually every database out there uses it, and almost every programing language speaks it. It makes the world a bit more user friendly.

**prod** · 01-12-2002, 04:33 PM

Hehe its not easy, but a friend of mine is doing something similar to yours, he is charging $3000 for it.
Lots of work out there for small business databases.

**floppybootstomp** · 01-12-2002, 05:03 PM

And there was me thinking this would be something fairly simple

I can see this ain't gonna be done overnight...

JB, all you guys, thanks again for the input.

So, tell me if I'm right, you get your head round this thing, get really well versed in it, you can flog a programme for $3000.00?

And then charge maintenance fees? I ain't ever gone near any kind of programming at all. C++? Wossat? MYSQL? I ain't even got the first faintest clue how to design a web site but this thing got me thinking.

Goddamn, Martz is doing OK after getting his head round some stuff, this got me thinking.....

**BitBender** · 01-12-2002, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by BitBender
MYSQL is far superior to Accsuck 2000. It's free...used in thousands of applications worldwide (including ALL VB forums, like this one!), and has TONS of freeware apps out there you can use.

I'm tihnking that when I was perusing for free forum tools, I saw a freeware basic interface....Flopps, did u check the link ??

----> MYSQL

**floppybootstomp** · 01-12-2002, 06:39 PM

Nope, didn't realise that was a link probably cos you so fond of underlining things

Oft have I clicked on one of your underlined thingies to get... nowt!

I'll look into it. Thanks. I'm really quite intrigued now, realising of course that a body gotta have a real clear head and some commitment to master this thing

Nevertheless, I'm interested.

**muckshifter** · 01-12-2002, 06:51 PM

I was that interested I D/L it ... and as far as I know its installed ... somewhere ...

Now what does one do.

Hey, Linux was easier.

**BitBender** · 01-13-2002, 03:35 PM

Hey Mucks!!

Be sure to D/L MySQLAdmin too

It's a browser based master toolbox

a) Did u install it as a service ?? If so, it'll come up at boot time. If not, launch *C:/mysql/mysqlmanager.exe

b) See the readme's in the *C:/MySql directories for more goodies, and the sample DB..

*or whatever drive letter you installed it under

**muckshifter** · 01-13-2002, 03:53 PM

Well it got "unpacked" to C:/MySql and that’s as far as I got. I D/L the correct version for XP and was expecting to see a programme folder in my Start Menu.

Well after a reboot nothing? I could browse the folder and the only .EXE file had been associated with Pagemaker. I didn't bother. The D/L manual did not make one word of sense.

Sorry Bits, but Linux is a piece of cake compared to this and they do not speak English either.

The last time I did any DB work was with a program called dBase by Ashton Tate.

All you got was a "dot prompt" and that was dead easy.

**Zemuss** · 01-15-2002, 04:24 PM

Hey Floops!

SQL is pretty easy. I am learning it myself. Little by Little.

Access is probally your best bet for now. It does lag performance. Since Access2000 came out the table (Files) have been improved to allow more than 65000 records. If you run into a performance issue.. try splitting the tables off of the main apps. Go to Tools -> Database utilities -> Database splitter.
Or you can setup a MS2000 SQL Database and Upsize your project. Upsizing a Access project will require you to know SQL.
It will take your tables and transform them to SQL.
I believe it will also move your QRY's and make them stored procedures.

I am currently taking most pre-req courses for the MCSD degree track my community college will be offering in Aug 02.

Floops if you need any help dude.. Let me know...

Z