Monitor probs – 4132 days old

[floppybootstomp]

After selling a few computer bits and bobs and some canny wheeling and dealing I got meself a 19" Monitor. Iiyama Vision Master 1451, a recent model, not flat screen, budget end of their range.

Sometimes when I boot I'm getting kinda like a 'circle of bars' ( like a kid's picture of the Sun) in the background, only just noticeable, and some flickering like a bad refresh rate, mostly to the left of the screen.

And sometimes it ain't there and everything's fine.

I'm using an ATI Radeon 32MB DDR, running the monitor at 1280 x 1024, 85Mhz refresh, 32 bit colour, Iiyama's recommended settings. I've loaded the latest Iiyama drivers as well.

I've tried just about every setting you can think of for the Radeon, and have tweaked the Monitor's settings as well. Every combination, this effect just won't go away.

Has anybody ever experienced this effect before? Anybody know a cure?

I've a real bad feeling the Monitor's faulty. If that's the case, I bought it mail order and a turnaround would take at least a week. Also the mail order company want shipping charges up front in case there's nothing wrong with it and I can only do that by credit card. And my cards are both in desperate need of a 'top-up' right now.

This is really pissing me off. Last time I buy something bulky by mail order I think, the shipping is a real pain in the arse.

When it works well, it's OK, but I must admit it ain't that much of an improvement over my old Philips 17" 107E, everything's just bigger, is all. Just goes to show you only get what you pay for.

Update: As I typed this post, that effect was onscreen. I just restarted and it's gone... it's looking good right now

[ImaginAsian]

Did you try degaussing? Longshot but hey you never know...

Being an audo buff, I know you got no speakers next to the monitor that are unshielded so that leaves the most likely...

The electron gun is going

[prod]

Sorry to hear it mate. I think it probably is the monitor. It didnt happen with the old one, right?
I work for a shipping company, you dont wanna know what we do to monitors that come through us
One thing to try is take it to work or someones house and try it there. Could be you have noise on your home wiring.

[Alakazam]

Speakers first like IA asked, also can you try the monitor in a different location with a different puter?

[floppybootstomp]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

I've degaussed; speakers are not near monitor; the mains ring is clean; had no probs with the old monitor in same location.

Prod's comment about shipping prompted an idea. Perhaps it had a knock during shipping and the CRT base or another connector is askew. I'll have a look inside.

I'll also try it with another system in a different location just to confirm.

Thanks again.

[muckshifter]

Is this CCL Flops? you should have 3year OSW?

I hope you are pluging it directly into the mains and NOT the back of the PSU ... oh, and do NOT use an extention.

[floppybootstomp]

Yup, CCL. I just want to make sure there is a fault with it before I return it. Have yet to look inside or try with another system, will do that this evening.

The euro mains lead that came with the monitor is plugged straight into the mains. I'm not using any VGA extension leads, I've seen the poor image they can introduce in the past.

BTW, it's not been switched off since last night and it's still looking fine.

[floppybootstomp]

Sussed! Under the ATI tweak facility >> Color >> Desktop Brightness>> I just took that down a smidge and everything's looking good. In fact it looks rather fabulous

Seems that was one adjustment I'd overlooked

[muckshifter]

Flops can "see" everybody now. :p

Isn't it amazing how the "little men" seem to know exactly how to up!

[ImaginAsian]

How odd...a brightness seting can cause all that funkiness?

Oh well...it's fixed now

[floppybootstomp]

Actually, it came back, that prob. I have to reboot once, maybe seven times, and eventually that 'sun' interference won't be there.

And here's the odd thing. Just after I moved my 'new' setup of K6-2 500 system into my attic, using a Tatung 15" Monitor at 32 bit colour 1024 x 768 res, TNT2 16MB vid card, I'm getting the same pattern on that

Now, all I can think of is that my mains supply may not be as clean as I first thought. Either that or I'm getting bombarded with magnetic waves from a secret local scientific facility.

This one's got me baffled.

Perhaps I may invest in one of those mains supply filters, to give me a clean 240 volts AC @ 50hz. That's all I can think of.

Anybody got any ideas? Sheesh.....

[James]

Definately UFO's

[floppybootstomp]

Take a look in your Hot Chocolate.

There's a cockroach swimming in that mug....

[James]

Hot Chocolate You trying to poison me?

roach in my beer mug,would need to be dried for later use

nothing but beer or pure water shall these lips pass

[muckshifter]

All monitors are plugged straight into the mains and NOT the back of the computer, yes?

Oh, and try 16bit colour.

[Alakazam]

It seems to me that it is some kind of RFI getting in there Flops, especially since it's doing it in different locations and with different monitors. That can be a bugger to trace down. Do you have anything new electronic in the house since the problems started, it could even be as simple as lightswitch dimmers which emit a tremendous amount of RFI. Have you noticed any work being done in the neighborhood with the power poles or line repair, a transformer could also be causing that.

[floppybootstomp]

Well, there's been a helluva lot of road works going on outside recently, they're putting 'traffic calming' measures in place. But I doubt that would cause it, I think all their tools are air-powered from a portable truck-mounted generator.

The only new item of Electronic equipment in the house is my 19" Monitor and the 'new' K6-2 500, unlikely suspects, IMO. Oh, and a new Combi-Boiler, again unlikely to cause probs, IMO.

I have a dual trace Oscilloscope upstairs, think I may just observe my mains supply on that for a while.

I haven't tried Mucks' suggestion of 16 bit colour yet, I'll try that on the 15" monitor shortly. Right now the 19" monitor is behaving itself.

Thanks for the input folks.

[ImaginAsian]

What happens if you plug the monitors in another room besides the attic? If i understand, anytime you plug in the attic you get the weird patterns?

[floppybootstomp]

Uh, nope. The 19" Monitor is in the living room, ground floor, the 15" is in the attic '2nd floor'.

And there's two 17" monitors in between, unaffected

[floppybootstomp]

A little update to this quite most peculiar problem.

My last dozen or so reboots have been fine, no probs.

One thing though. My audio amplifier was sitting right next to the monitor.

This amplifier is a 70's model with a wooden case and a huge mains transformer. A huge mains transformer that gives off a lot of EMF.

I've moved the amplifier and after a coupla days, I don't seem to be getting the prob.

As for the monitor in the attic, those probs have disappeared as well.

Now, either I had an external interference problem that's gone, or - well, I just don't know

Whatever, for now, all seems good. We shall see how my system carries on.

[Alakazam]

Glad to see it cleared up Flops, hopefully, for good. That emf coulda been getting everywhere, keep us posted.

[ImaginAsian]

Flops...pack up, take the wife and kids and move. The Aliens are coming to your house

Hehe...the amp may explain your downstairs but that upstairs

[floppybootstomp]

I have spent so much time messing about with the two offending monitors over the last coupla weeks it ain't true.

The 15" Tatung 'attic' monitor? It couldn't run the 1024x768 res very well, is all, set it to 800 x 600, it's fine, no swirly patterns. I was just trying to run it too high for it's specs.

My new Iiyama 19"? I've proved to myself yet again that you only get what you pay for. That old adage is so true and basically my 19" Monitor just ain't that good.

In the UK, a decently specced 19" Monitor typically costs 250 - 300. I paid 175 for this Iiyama 1451, I've realised I shouldn't have expected great things.

The 'sun' pattern I mentioned earlier disappeared if I lowered the resolution. I played with just about every combination, but I've now settled on 1024x768, 32 bit colour & 85 refresh. It looks fine, no 'flicker' no nasty patterns, but everything is so goddamn big and it's not as crisp as I'd like.

Running it at 1280x1024, 85 refresh, which are it's recommended settings, I got that pattern effect. I don't think there's anything wrong with the Monitor, it's just cheap.

So now, saving pennies for something decent, this Iiyama won't go to waste, it can replace the 15" 'attic Monitor. I mean, it still looks pretty good, I gotta reasonable sized screen, it will be fine for WIN98/Linux upstairs.

I should have realised 175 weren't gonna buy me first class.

Ah well, lesson learnt.

[Techvillage]

The lesson you learnt matey is that you have a critical eye, some people can't see a non-perfect screen, others like yourself, can. At least now you have a yarstick which to go by.

Try and see the sreen quality on the next monitor before you buy - I know it's bleedin obvious, and spilt milk and all, but you have learnt something.

[floppybootstomp]

Thanks Tech, you're right. Still learning lessons - lol!

I'm reminded of the old Kung Fu master, in his nineties, who, having dedicated himself to a life of learning his chosen art, on his death bed allowed himself the privilege of saying he'd actually mastered the most basic punch...

I don't suppose you know anywhere within the M25 circle that has a showroom displaying many different models of Monitor? Blowed if I do

[ImaginAsian]

Hehe...Indeed in the area of Monitors you sure do get what you pay for. That's one area I never skimp because after all...its your eyes and you don't get another replacement

[floppybootstomp]

I was going to stay quiet about this, peeps must be getting bored with it, but as you resurrected it IA...

Here's the odd thing, it runs perfect at 1600 x 1200 x 75Hz, except I got about a half inch black border and all the adjustments are maxed out.

I was talking to Martz on ICQ about this and he said he had a Monitor with a similar problem, it wouldn't run right at one particular resolution until he changed his video card.

So I'm thinking about that now.

[martzweb]

it's weird that the iiyama is giving you such problems flopps.... i only use iiyama at home, because they are quite simply the best IMO.

one thing you might want to check...... is the monitor cable definately the iiyama one? if it's a cheaper cable, you can almost certainly put it down to that, as i've seen the results of an iiyama being hooked up using a std monitor cable, and it isn't pretty.

also check the monitor cable isn't lying on top of a mains cable... i noticed my 21" went a bit weird when this happened ....... seems the proper iiyama cable isn't that well sheilded.......

things to try... hope they help

ps... if you need a proper cable, you cn get them direct from iiyama, but at a cost of (gulp) £25.

m

[Quadophile]

Flops,

I read the entire thread, I was wondering if it was the moire patterns that were to blame. I am not sure if it is the case, so I did some research and came up with following information for you.

Go this web page to get an idea if you have a focus problem (misalignment of the tube)

Focus checking for monitors

Second I came across an article on Viewsonic which read as follows:

The P95f does have a few faults, but ViewSonic has included damage control to minimize the flaws associated with all large screen monitors. At resolutions between 1140 and 1280, moire patterns become an annoying problem. I used a moire detect pattern and was shocked to see giant ripples on this otherwise great display. As I was flipping through the OSD control panel, however, I came across a moire option which was able to eliminate up to 95% of the pattern with a little tweaking. The moire only shows up in specific cases such as small text on a screen, where certain letters may look slightly faded or blurrier than the others, but the problem is easily remedied with the OSD controls. The P95f also carries a minor flaw commonly associated with Trinitron based monitors: two faint gray horizontal lines across the screen. The lines are noticeable but are not an eyesore.

What is moire?

Moire refers to an interference pattern of dark wavy lines on the screen. It is not a defect, but rather an interference phenomenon caused by the relationship between the phosphor layout and the imaging signal. Moire is often an indication of a good focus level. Moire is particularly noticeable when using a light-gray pattern background. Although moire cannot be eliminated completely, it can be reduced with the moire reduction feature on some monitors.

You may also take a look at this link for another example of what a moire pattern looks like, if at all your monitor is plagued with it.

Convergence and Moire

The monitor I am using does have this moire control (Samsung 700IFT) and that is the reason, it struck me that this is something which is not mentioned in any of the posts above, I am assuming you may have this very problem. Although I have never needed to use it as my monitor is not giving me this kind of problem.

I hope it helps

[muckshifter]

Well done Quad ...

However, could you issue a warning next time especially when linking to something like "Focus checking for monitors" ... I swore the "picture" started to sway, as if on a boat in high seas, ... then I fell off my chair.

[floppybootstomp]

Thanks for those links, very helpful of you. Unfortunately,neither convergence, focus or Moire seems to be the problem here. They all checked out fine.

I can remember adjusting focus and convergence on the old TV's. I'd feed a grid pattern into the TV and using a mirror at the front of the TV adjust the permanent magnets on the CRT neck until all colours merged on the grid.

And focus was done adjusting a pot on the LOPT (Line output transformer).

Do some monitors have electronic focusing option in the menu? Mine doesn't. It does have a moire adjustment, it was already set to best.

I haven't tried Martz' suggestion yet, I will over the weekend.

I've enclosed a reduced snap of my desktop below where it's showing the fault, but I'm not sure if the fault will be discernible on line. It may lose something in the graphics dept. I could just capture a section of the desktop and increase the size I suppose. Let's try this first.

[floppybootstomp]

I can make it out, particularly on the right hand side.

Now, if you can see it, what does anybody make of that?

[James]

Put on a pair of sunglasses!It's not from UFO's.It's from what they did to you,while they had you!
And change your desktop Pic.

[floppybootstomp]

It's nowt to do with desktop pic. It looks even worse on a white background, such as an empty document in Word.

And like I mentioned earlier, it only happens on that one res, which just happens to be the one that looks best

How did you know about my abduction for three weeks in '89? You remember when Frank Bruno had his ass kicked by Tyson? I missed all of that.

[Techvillage]

Hi Flopps - only to re-inforce what's been said already.

I have had cases where the display wont stretch to the edge of the screen like Martz said, a change of card did the trick. Also, try different refresh rates, you want to keep above 70 to stop the headaches, but if you have odd steps like 72, then try that as opposed to 75, and re-adjust to see if you can ge to the edge.