win95 question – 2249 days old

[Tuffies Son]

I've got an odd problem with an old pc I'm looking to revive and load wih old games from that era. Odd I know, but it's just something I'm messing with for fun and curiosity.

Anyway, the problem is like this. I relocated the board and changed system hardware and ended up with borked files at startup. It trys to boot clean through, but always freezes, even in safe mode. I read an article by m$ about tricking the ms-dos version the os rides on into a workaround repair of config.sys and autoexec.bat. Apparently you can start via the manually confirm boot section (also the only boot option offered in F8 that doesn't freeze instantly on this box).

You would say no to config.sys and no to autoexec.bat, but retrieve the files later by io.sys, which would load them from the doz install instead of using system memory like the bootloader would.

I've tried many variations on the step-by-step confirm boot, but the best I've been able to do so far is get it through the s-b-s and into C:> prompt. After that I eventually issue a command that causes it to execute the command, then stop at ... and fail to load the prompt window/freeze. It seems like I've been quite close to being able to boot to safe mode, but I think I have to change the # of buffers, stacks, or some such, plus doz said something about raising certain values something like from 60 to 100.

The article I keep referring to was a question posted on the m$ website, but the prob, though boot related, was slightly different than my problem. It's given me ideas and things to try, but like Tom says..."no joy"

I'm hoping that there is a workaround boot for this box and that somebody out there has had success in the past...even if it's the distant past. Saving the install is the only real point to this, and while it's not any critical operation, I'd still like to do it if possible. The probs probably come from changing too much hardware too fast.

This is an old beast that had 16mb edo (lol) and now has the blazing speed of 64mb, plus a better cd-r, and had a 2g HD and a 3g HD added for storage. It's posting and counting the memory correctly. It sees the cd-r and will allow me to set the drive letter and designate the MSCD0001 driver for it. I can get to A:> or C:> in win95 command prompt, or I can use a boot disk to get to regular ms-dos (but only the 6.0 version).

I'm currently running the system without the added drives, just the C: as secondary master and the cd as E: the primary master. Starting at the F8 choices, is there something else I can try to get this box to boot?

[TJM4FUN]

w95 is very dependent on having the correct drivers for it's hardware.
the hdd should be primary master on ide port 1.
every peice of hardware must have w95 drivers installed properly for it to work, and most of them will have stubs loaded in config.sys.
So you are saying it won't even boot into safe mode, that is not gonna make things any easier. is this the original mobo and video? did you add any cards in like a nic?

[Tuffies Son]

w95 is very dependent on having the correct drivers for it's hardware.
the hdd should be primary master on ide port 1.
every peice of hardware must have w95 drivers installed properly for it to work, and most of them will have stubs loaded in config.sys.
So you are saying it won't even boot into safe mode, that is not gonna make things any easier. is this the original mobo and video? did you add any cards in like a nic?

I did remove a sound card that was attached to the previous CD-r, but I did not replace the sound card. It wouldn't be too difficult to add the old sound card and re-attach it to the original Cd-r (a real junker), especially if it made it easier to boot the system. They could be changed again later. I should have swapped things out one item at a time, but the ram and HDs went well and I got too brave.

Thanks Tom! I'll switch the ide cables to make the hd primary master, and the cd-r secondary master. I'll change back to the old cd-r and connect it as it was to the old (really old) sound card, then see if it acts any different. I'll leave out the better cd-r and the other two HDs until I see how it goes.

[Tuffies Son]

Well, those changes didn't make anything worse for sure, but she still no boot. Using s-by-s commands, this time I got the last few lines, "Device High=C:\PBTOOLS PB \NEC_IDE.sys/D:MSCD0001

Oak Technology Inc. .....

Autoexec.bat--I said No
Win graphical interface--I said No

now on win95....
C:\>


I'm pretty sure that if I now use autoexec.bat it will execute it and freeze immediately.

I also forgot to mention that I went from a 133MHz cpu to a 300MHz. This thing acts like it wants to boot right up, but once it hits the win95 splash boot screen, the moving bar across the bottom freezes, and that's all she wrote. Anyone know any magic-bullet-type command that might bring this thing out of it? I'm thinking of C:/> /Io.sys but I'm sure you can tell that I'm guessing.

[TJM4FUN]

when you said no to autoexec.bat, and no to graphical, you won;t get any win95 dispaly, it isn;t started.

try it again and say yes to autoexec, then see if any statements pop an error.

say no to graphical.

when you get to the c: prompt then, type win /? for a list of siwitches it will except.
there is I beleive one option to log the startup, plus some other options. I need to find one of my old laptops that still has w95 on it to find the commands....

[TJM4FUN]

ok, here are the awitches to use wit the win command:

win [/d:[f] [m] [n] [s] [v] [x]]

The /d: switch is used for troubleshooting when Windows 95 does not start correctly. 
The switches in the following table can be used with the /d: switch.

Switch Description 
f      Turn off 32-bit disk access. Try this if the computer appears to have disk problems,
        or if Windows 95 stalls. This is equivalent to 32BitDiskAccess=FALSE in SYSTEM.INI.
 
m      Starts Windows 95 in Safe Mode.
 
n       Starts Windows 95 in Safe Mode with Networking.
 
s       Specifies that Windows 95 not use ROM address space between F000:0000 and 1 MB 
        for a break point. Try this if Windows 95 stalls during system startup. This is equivalent
        to SystemROMBreakPoint=FALSE in SYSTEM.INI.
 
v      Specifies that the ROM routine should handle interrupts from the hard disk controller. 
       Try this if Windows 95 stalls during system startup or disk operations. This is equivalent 
       to VirtualHDIRQ=FALSE in SYSTEM.INI.
 
x     Excludes all of the adapter area from the memory that Windows 95 scans to find unused 
       space. This is equivalent to EMMExclude=A000-FFFF in SYSTEM.INI.

first try win /d:m to start it in safe mode.
if it fails to start, then
rename autoexec.bat to oldauto.bat
rename config.sys to config.old

reboot. it should stop at a c: prompt
now try win /d:m and see if it makes it to a desktop.

[Tuffies Son]

When I do the same op, but say yes to Autoexec.bat, it freezes immediately. If I want to get to a prompt screen, instead of a choice (y-n) screen, I have to say no to both autoexec.bat and win graphical interface.

Before autoexec.bat and graphical interface, I get DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS and I say yes. Then I get DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.exe and again I say yes. Then, after no to autoexec.bat and graphical interface, I get;

Microsoft (R) Windows 95
(C) Copyright Microsoft corp 1981-1995.

C:\>

I'm going to try;

win /? for a list of switches it will except ....and post my results oops, didn't catch your last post until I posted...working on it now, thanks Tom

[Tuffies Son]

hmmm, I've tried REN/ and RENAME/ commands to rename autoexec.bat but every one I tried gets me, INVALID SWITCH - /AUTOEXEC.BAT

last try was C:>RENAME/ AUTOEXEC.BAT = oldauto.bat

several variations on REN and RENAME give me the same results (INVALID SWITCH)

[TJM4FUN]

ren autoexec.bat oldauto.bat

no symbols

[Tuffies Son]

ren autoexec.bat oldauto.bat

no symbols

ah, cool btw I did win /? and got the exact list that you posted...back to renaming...

[Tuffies Son]

ok this time it ended the s-by-s with WIN yes or no

I said yes, and got "FILE CREATION ERROR" then C:>


then I tried "win /d:m" (no quotes) and it started to make booting noises and froze again....ugg

[TJM4FUN]

try win /d:f
might be a disk issue

[Tuffies Son]

Bump...I've tried most everthing suggested so far, but still freeze up on the 95 splash screen. Could it possibly do me any good to upgrade to 6.22 DOS from the 6.0 I've got now? Is there a way to upgrade to 6.22 from the 6.0 start screen A:> ? I've got the 6.22 version loaded onto a floppy.

Any other workaround ideas to fix my broken startup files without losing the install?

[TJM4FUN]

the dos version shouldn't matter.
do uouhave afolder on ther with all the .cab files and the setup proc?

[Tuffies Son]

the dos version shouldn't matter.
do uouhave afolder on ther with all the .cab files and the setup proc?

I'm sure there is a folder for cabs in the windows system folder, but unless I can call it up from A:> or C:> in dos 6.0 I can't see the folder, nor a list of the cab files. In the step-by-step boot option I can find three bad/broken/missing files that I think are part of the problem. I think they were startup dll files. I've tried to get into setup from 95 boot disks, but get non-system disc errors unless I use the oldest one I've got (with dos 6.0).

I could go through the few various s-b-s boots, both dead-ends that won't process and the three it complains about on the way to dos and COMMAND COM. I'll do that and list them if you think it might help. ??? Thanks Tom

[TJM4FUN]

look in c:\windows\options\cabs for the files form a dos boot diskette
if they are there, see if there is a setup.exe in there. if so, you can run that and point it at the windows folder to reinstall over itself.

[prod]

I seem to remember there was a timing bug in win95 that did not allow cpu over a certain speed. I had to add a patch to get my k6-2 450 running under the full gui. Just a thought.

[TJM4FUN]

yeah, I thought that problem only surfaced during an install tho. setup would loop.

honestly, yanking an old os and throwing it in an new system is mostly doomed to failure, you need to prep the os first before the move, after the fact it is reinstall time.

in this case, read as: a waste of time that will go on for 3 weeks and not work.

[prof-rabbit]

Hi Everyone,

May I suggest the obvious? A Win98 CD (no longer supported by MS) and an "upgrade" install code, solving several problems in one, just remember when "upgrading" to say no to remembering your settings, boot from the disc and away you go...

[prof-rabbit]

Hi Everyone,

May I suggest the obvious? A Win98 CD (no longer supported by MS) and an "upgrade" install code, solving several problems in one, just remember when "upgrading" to say no to remembering your settings, boot from the disc and away you go...

Ps. Buy a legit copy from an older friend (should not cost more than a dollar or two)

[Tuffies Son]

yeah, I thought that problem only surfaced during an install tho. setup would loop.

honestly, yanking an old os and throwing it in an new system is mostly doomed to failure, you need to prep the os first before the move, after the fact it is reinstall time.

in this case, read as: a waste of time that will go on for 3 weeks and not work.

Ah HA! ...Yes & No TJ...yes I forked around for 2-3 weeks with overwriting cabs & the like, but it did work...finally. Just a silly thing (nothing unusual there) but it was only the install itself that I wanted to save. I've got 95, 98, 98se all legit copies, but wanted the proggies that were on that install. It was running at 133MHz and with 32mb ram, and I considered it too defunct to even mess with. Now upgraded to 550MHz and 384mb ram she's still a dinosaur, but a much snappier one.

A friend gave me the old box, but I never messed with it much, just noticed that it had some cool old proggies and lots of games on it...another nostalgia box, it is. Another friend was cleaning out all of his outdated stuff and gave me a stack of about 40-50 floppies with 8-10 games on each (Duke Nukem et. al.). My thought was that if I added a small older hd I could put all the old games on it just for the heck of it.

In the end it turned out like I wanted it to, but in reality I'll probably not play them much...but if I get a nostalgic twinge, I CAN play them. Thanks for the help and comments peeps. Cheers

[TJM4FUN]

Well, see , you got it to work all by yourself. probably learned something too.
Glad ya got it sorted out.