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Thread: New Intel Atom chips will be "Windows 8 Chips"685 days old

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    Hell's Very Own Grogan's Avatar
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    New Intel Atom chips will be "Windows 8 Chips"

    I'm not a fan of the Inquirer, but if this is true...

    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ork-with-linux

    SAN FRANCISCO: CHIPMAKER Intel has confirmed that it will not provide support for Linux on its Clover Trail Atom chip.
    Intel's Clover Trail Atom processor can be seen in various nondescript laptops around IDF and the firm provided a lot of architectural details on the chip, confirming details such as dual-core and a number of power states. However Intel said Clover Trail "is a Windows 8 chip" and that "the chip cannot run Linux".
    That pisses me off, because I was planning on offering Linux installs to people who bought computers with Windows 8. (Like, umm, netbooks and laptops etc.)

    This is x86, which is supposed to be an open platform, why in the Hell would they do this, other than dirty dealings with Microsoft?

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    Posting Deity Bad Haircut's Avatar
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    Just more bullshit added to the boycott list.

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    When the PC market speaks, Intel and Microsoft might well find that Clover Trail is a dead end.
    Happy trails Wintel

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    Hell's Very Own Grogan's Avatar
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    The "PC Market" won't speak that way. We're only a small number who would even understand what is wrong with this. Effectively, those two cunts dictate what the PC market is going to be and they are probably conspiring to get rid of the PC market as it is now. AMD will cash in on the gravy money too and design "Windows 8" hardware. If not, they will simply lose business to ARM device makers and Intel.

    Hardware manufacturers are probably dying a slow death of mediocrity. They are at the limits of silicon technology. CPUs aren't getting any faster... the trend now is to make them smaller and consume less power. Further increasing the number of cores doesn't even help because (except maybe in special cases and busy servers with many CPU bound tasks) the software limits how the cores will be used.

    People are getting dumber too, all they do is stupid shit like FaecesBook anymore and they can do that using their pocket pool gadgetry. The gaming consoles and greedy developers have all but ruined PC gaming and there's not much call for that kind of expensive hardware either in what is becoming a small niche. You can't even buy a PC with "gaming" hardware anymore, unless you build or get it built. Even so called "Gaming PCs" cut corners with mid or low end video cards. The fact that they even have a discrete video card makes them "higher end" systems. (They'll be able to play World of Wankercraft)

    I'm afraid that Linux adoption has decreased with these "visionaries" and their dumbed down desktop environments and the "Get a Mac!" mentality that is propagating. The number of people (consumers I mean) who care is such a small blip on the radar that companies like Intel and AMD need not worry outside of server hardware.

    I thought like BadHaircut at first, but the more I brood on this the darker my thoughts become. For example, Intel Atom will be the CPU that most netbooks sold will have. Vendors aren't going to use "inferior" chips that result in shorter battery life etc. This has to do with power management, and proprietary kernel hooks in Windows 8 that "give clues" to the hardware to enter low power states on the fly. (Think software patents)

    Most people (again, we're not talking about people like us) don't buy things based on what OS is supported, they just buy them. These netbooks won't even be downgradable to better versions of Windows, let alone Linux.

    Also, what the fuck kind of netbook am I going to buy when mine dies? The kind of hardware I would want in a netbook probably is just not going to be available when these new dual core Atom processors become mainstream. Again, I wouldn't count on AMD to fill the gap, they'll be sucking the Microsoft teat too. Microsoft is a dirty dealing, smarmy eel of a company with contracts and non disclosure agreements when you deal with them etc. This is why the hardware vendors in the 90's really couldn't even cry foul.

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    If it comes down to it maybe we'll end up only buying server hardware. They said that chip doesn't support anything but Win8, but is there really anything preventing another OS from running on it? Seems like another OS should still run fine on it, even if it meant the power management not functioning the way it was designed to. I found this article, it's a slightly different spin on the same story:

    You'd think this sort of stuff belonged to the past - but no. Apparently, Microsoft is afraid of Android on its Windows 8 tablets, because Intel has just announced that it will provide no support for Linux on its clover Trail processors. Supposedly, this chip is "designed for Windows 8". What?
    Yes, what - I think that's a pretty reasonable reaction here. Intel has been relatively forward with its support for Linux, and I don't think the chipmaker has ever specifically said a regular x86 chip is designed for one particular operating system. As said, the chip is regular x86, so there's no reason it wouldn't run Linux - sure, there are some added power states, but that's nothing Linux can't add support for.

    Intel didn't want to address why, specifically, it won't support Linux, but it did explain that the operating system needs to "hint" the processor about power states, and that Linux didn't support these. This is, of course, all smoke and mirrors; Intel could easily detail the specifications so Linux can add support for it.

    As such, I would say this is nothing but a deal with Microsoft to make it harder for Android to run on this platform. While the lack of support won't deter a single enthusiast (Linux will eventually run on this just fine), it will make it impossible for OEMs to build Clover Trail machines for Android.

    It's all pretty pathetic, really. Yet another regression in the technology industry.
    From OSnews.

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    Posting Deity Bad Haircut's Avatar
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    The only thing I would counter that with in the long term is, fashion. At the moment it's clear where 'market trend' is heading and they're all running like sheepscunts for a slice of that action. I'm saying things bounce back and the 'market landscape' will likely change, yet again, because that's what happens. Not everyone wants micro and a smaller is better world. And I wouldn't underestimate the hobbyist 'tinkerer' market either, whilst desktop linux has stalled flat on it's ass, I'm still surprised how many 'like the idea' of being able to run linux even if it doesn't stay on a hard drive.

    I agree things don't look particularly good with this move but by the time there's been a few imaginative court cases and 'changing winds' factor in, things might be a little different.

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    Speaking of AMD:

    SAN FRANCISCO: CHIP DESIGNER AMD said its upcoming Hondo processor will be featured only on Windows 8 tablets at launch.
    AMD's Hondo APU is the firm's first serious attempt to get into the tablet market and as the firm was busy showing hacks that Hondo can be used in devices that are sleek, it also told The INQUIRER that the firm is focusing on Windows 8. However unlike Intel, AMD said there is nothing stopping people from running Linux on its Hondo processor.
    Ultimately Intel's decision not to support Linux on Clover Trail could be costly, and not just in the tablet market. AMD's Hondo Linux support could come in handy in the low-power server market that Intel is trying to edge into. With AMD's Hondo GPU the firm could try to differentiate itself from Intel, which has only recently enabled OpenCL support on its integrated graphics cores.
    With both AMD and Intel readying Hondo and Clover Trail respectively for Windows 8 and pushing their respective customers to come up with designs at roughly the same time, it will be interesting to see just how many Windows RT tablets will appear at the operating system's launch. However one thing is clear, neither AMD nor Intel will have Android x86 tablets running with their respective next generation ultra low voltage chips.
    From another Inquirer article.

    So AMD has also sold out to MS, but maybe not as thoroughly as Intel did.

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    So long as neither one does what Foxxcon did a few years back. They produced a motherboard that was listed as not support Linux. That that REALLY meant was, the BIOS checked to see if the system was running Linux, multiple times in fact, and deliberately passed it bad tables. It would have been less work for the BIOS coders to just pass the various tables to the OS when asked but this one genuinely passed different tables to different OSs to make sure Linux wouldn't run on it. There was a huge stink about it over on the Ubuntu forums at the time and Foxxcon got wind of it and went into damage control.
    Power is something that should be given to those who need it to serve and withheld from those who seek it to rule.

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    Hell's Very Own Grogan's Avatar
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    I remember, in fact the guy who started that shitstorm was here for a while. Ryan I think his name was.

    P.S. Yes, this guy:

    http://www.bitbenderforums.com/forum...inux-situation

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    Slightly unbalanced Dark Angel's Avatar
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    Yes, I ended up politely (no, really) asking him to calm down. He came here on my coat tails so I kind of felt responsible.

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    Hell's Very Own Grogan's Avatar
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    I was subtly encouraging him, though I didn't actually think that Foxconn did that on purpose, in fact Foxconn said it was AMI (I saw no reason not to believe that). It was probably just experimental bios code paths that were never meant to be active. I remembered hearing something about that long before, and didn't hear any more about it again. (I used to read the kernel mailing list for several years). I guess the kernel would follow those directives just in case some manufacturer did have Linux specific workarounds.

    He was getting some attention though and I was happy that "Linux" was something not to be ignored. If you fuck things up for us, some Linux enthusiast is going to make an issue of it and generate all kinds of bad press. Foxconn didn't think they had to "support" Linux and so wouldn't even have tested it. Maybe now they do, because of this.

    I, of course, also liked his rebellious, somewhat anarchistic attitude and the way he "childishly" told people off when criticized. Somewhat like myself in some ways. I liked some of the other shit on his blog too, for example he had a go at Chris Pirillo and called him a "douche" and got an even more childish reply from him. (Mission accomplished lol)

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    Posting Deity Bad Haircut's Avatar
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    Intel's new Clover Trail chip will support Android & Linux

    Summary: There have been rumors that Intel's new Atom CPU, Clover Trail, would only support Windows 8, but not Android or Linux. We now know that the chip will support these open-source operating systems as well.


    http://www.zdnet.com/intels-new-clov...ux-7000004451/

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    That sounds a lot better, but it still doesn't sound good. Intel has plans for "another version" for Linux/Android.

    My primary concern is salvaging these "Windows 8 computers" when people don't like Windows 8. If only Windows 8 can use the power management in THOSE chips, that first crop of devices are going to be useless.

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